The Honda CRF 250 L / Kawasaki KLX 250 shoot out!

KTMphil

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Jan 11, 2011
Location
Chiang Mai, Thailand
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2007 KTM 990 Adventure Suzuki DRZ 400
#41
Tony who rides a Kawasaki KXF 250 motorcross bike just took the Honda CRF 250 L for a spin, he said it feels better than the KLX mainly because when standing on the pegs, the tank is a much more friendly shape on your legs, Alex did comment on the same thing the other day.
 

KTMphil

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Jan 11, 2011
Location
Chiang Mai, Thailand
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2007 KTM 990 Adventure Suzuki DRZ 400
#42
crs said:
Good job lads. Have you had a look to see if anything could be stripped off or replaced to reduce weight? What does it weigh over the KLX - 5kg?


The first thing to get rid of would be the huge, emissions compliance, exhaust. As a guess it weighs 8KG, you could probably save 7KG here immediately.

We're going to talk with the Honda CBR 250 mechanics that Barry, Luke & Colin know that work with the CBR 250 track racing teams in Bangkok. To clarify, this is the same engine that is in the Honda CRF 250 L. They have been getting 33 HP out of the race prepared CBR 250's, obviously all their mods. wont be suitable, but they know that engine inside out and will be quite fascinating to hear their ideas. Might use my bike as the guinea pig for this project. I think the mods. to Colin's, race prepared Honda CBR 250 was in the region of 26,000 Bht.
 

garethw

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Jan 31, 2012
Location
Pattaya (ish)
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KTM 250 EXC-F
#43
KTMphil said:
crs said:
Good job lads. Have you had a look to see if anything could be stripped off or replaced to reduce weight? What does it weigh over the KLX - 5kg?


The first thing to get rid of would be the huge, emissions compliance, exhaust. As a guess it weighs 8KG, you could probably save 7KG here immediately.

We're going to talk with the Honda CBR 250 mechanics that Barry, Luke & Colin know that work with the CBR 250 track racing teams in Bangkok. To clarify, this is the same engine that is in the Honda CBR 250 L. They have been getting 33 HP out of the race prepared CBR 250's, obviously all their mods. wont be suitable, but they know that engine inside out and will be quite fascinating to hear their ideas. Might use my bike as the guinea pig for this project. I think the mods. to Colin's, race prepared Honda CBR 250 was in the region of 26,000 Bht.
What about the guy at Home Motor Racing in Mae Rim for an exhaust. When I was in there he had photos of various different bikes with his exhausts on. So he might be able to make something a lot lighter, the end can I brought for my KLX is a fair bit lighter than the stock one and not obnoxiously loud.
 

KTMphil

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Jan 11, 2011
Location
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Bikes
2007 KTM 990 Adventure Suzuki DRZ 400
#44
Pretty sure that guy will be doing a few of these, i'll see what the Bangkok CBR 250 race track mechanics have in mind.

garethw said:
KTMphil said:
crs said:
Good job lads. Have you had a look to see if anything could be stripped off or replaced to reduce weight? What does it weigh over the KLX - 5kg?


The first thing to get rid of would be the huge, emissions compliance, exhaust. As a guess it weighs 8KG, you could probably save 7KG here immediately.

We're going to talk with the Honda CBR 250 mechanics that Barry, Luke & Colin know that work with the CBR 250 track racing teams in Bangkok. To clarify, this is the same engine that is in the Honda CBR 250 L. They have been getting 33 HP out of the race prepared CBR 250's, obviously all their mods. wont be suitable, but they know that engine inside out and will be quite fascinating to hear their ideas. Might use my bike as the guinea pig for this project. I think the mods. to Colin's, race prepared Honda CBR 250 was in the region of 26,000 Bht.
What about the guy at Home Motor Racing in Mae Rim for an exhaust. When I was in there he had photos of various different bikes with his exhausts on. So he might be able to make something a lot lighter, the end can I brought for my KLX is a fair bit lighter than the stock one and not obnoxiously loud.
 
Joined
May 7, 2012
Bikes
Crf 250
#45
With regards to the coolant tank position it's funny because it is probably the only thing I didn't like about the klx when I was looking at them I think it spoils the look of the big from the rear you just have this big White tank there,as mentioned before I have dropped my crf 3 times on the coolant tank side and it seems to hold up well , I find the little storage space on the crf where the klx has the water tank is really usefull I put my phone,wallet and cigs in there while riding.
I also noticed from the first picture on this thread the klx has what I take is the speedo cable running down the front right fork the crf does not use a cable for the speedometer so gives it a cleaner look,someone also pointed put to me today that the crf has a little black rubber bung opposite the valves on each wheel which is for rim locks if needed.
 
Joined
May 7, 2012
Bikes
Crf 250
#46
KTMphil said:
crs said:
Good job lads. Have you had a look to see if anything could be stripped off or replaced to reduce weight? What does it weigh over the KLX - 5kg?


The first thing to get rid of would be the huge, emissions compliance, exhaust. As a guess it weighs 8KG, you could probably save 7KG here immediately.

We're going to talk with the Honda CBR 250 mechanics that Barry, Luke & Colin know that work with the CBR 250 track racing teams in Bangkok. To clarify, this is the same engine that is in the Honda CRF 250 L. They have been getting 33 HP out of the race prepared CBR 250's, obviously all their mods. wont be suitable, but they know that engine inside out and will be quite fascinating to hear their ideas. Might use my bike as the guinea pig for this project. I think the mods. to Colin's, race prepared Honda CBR 250 was in the region of 26,000 Bht.
Two main things I am after for mine is gold renthal bars with grips and exhaust
Already took all the plastic crap off the back and swapped for led rear light and led indicators(which are flashing to quick lol)
 

Davevb

Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2011
Bikes
2010 Triumph Thruxton
#47
It was always going to be very interesting with this bike regarding the CBR 250 engine and the racing development put into it already. I am guessing there is no big bore stuff yet, the class is limited to 250cc? 26 000 sounds vey doable for most people to spend on performance...the same again on the suspension and you could have a sweet little bike. It's going to need an upgraded shock for sure and probably work on the front end. I think the cooling would need to be upgraded as well which is a bugger, I have doubt's about how 1 rad will handle hard work and extra performance, it's a pity they didn't put 2 rads on it.
 

LivinLOS

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Feb 10, 2011
Bikes
Gas Gas 250 (Trials), YZ250 (enduro), DRZ440 (Supermoto) CBR900 Streetfighter (scary !!)
#48
KTMphil said:
crs said:
They have been getting 33 HP out of the race prepared CBR 250's, obviously all their mods. wont be suitable, but they know that engine inside out and will be quite fascinating to hear their ideas. Might use my bike as the guinea pig for this project. I think the mods. to Colin's, race prepared Honda CBR 250 was in the region of 26,000 Bht.
And the massive upside is if and when you do make an engine go pop, parts are here incountry on hand for pennies..
 

Loop

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Bikes
VFR 800 PCX 150
#49
Can`t see too much more than an after market pipe and derestriction and maybe an air box mod? being done to these bikes and of course a big bore kit for those wanting to go that way.

Suspension,from reports,sounds good stock.
 

fantic

Junior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Location
Thailand
Bikes
CRF 250 L
#50
Thank's for taking the time to do the test report. Trat finally has 1. I took a good look at it today. The only things that seemed addressing right away IMO is a proper sump guard, folding gear shift lever and someway to bypass the side stand safety switch. My CBR 250 has been great so far so I'm not concerned about the engine. 135000 baht here. Closest Kawi dealer is in Pattaya so Honda it is.
 

KTMphil

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Jan 11, 2011
Location
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Bikes
2007 KTM 990 Adventure Suzuki DRZ 400
#51
Nae at the Chiang Mai Motorcross Shop just got 2 CRF 250 L's from the Chiang Mai Honda dealer...... There's a chance to test one one properly now, he's renting them for 1,000 Bht a day.


2012-05-10_132621.jpg


Nae was also told by the Chiang Mai Honda dealer that the price will increase to 145,000 fairly soon
 

KTMphil

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2007 KTM 990 Adventure Suzuki DRZ 400
#53
The key in the ignition lock is incredibly sticky, hopefully unique to this bike. We've found it best to rotate the key left towards the steering lock position first, then turn the key to the right (clockwise) to turn the ignition on.

Also the fuel tank cap, it isn't possible to remove the (ignition) key from the fuel tank cap while the cap is removed. To put the fuel tank cap back on the fuel tank, it's just a push-on arrangement and the cap locks in place and the key automatically turns 90 degrees, then you can remove the key from the fuel cap.
 
Joined
May 7, 2012
Bikes
Crf 250
#54
fantic said:
Thank's for taking the time to do the test report. Trat finally has 1. I took a good look at it today. The only things that seemed addressing right away IMO is a proper sump guard, folding gear shift lever and someway to bypass the side stand safety switch. My CBR 250 has been great so far so I'm not concerned about the engine. 135000 baht here. Closest Kawi dealer is in Pattaya so Honda it is.
Why and what will you achieve by bypassing the the safety switch on the side stand alot of the cbr 250 owners moan because the bike doesn't have the safety switch

Seen some renthal bars 3000 bht is that a fair price.
 

Davevb

Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2011
Bikes
2010 Triumph Thruxton
#55
Phil, can you confirm this front end arangement?

"The inverted front suspension employs a Separate Function Front Fork having an inner tube diameter of 43 mm and a cushion stroke of 250 mm in a design that secures both light weight and high rigidity to deliver excellent operability and high driving stability". It's from the Honda website.

I read that to be having just one heavier spring in one fork leg and all the damping (again bigger) in the other leg. I've never heard of this set up before and wonder if it is any good or just cost cutting? Also, if you wanted to upgrade the forks it seems you would have to change out the whole assembly?

I would also be interested in comparing the air filters. The Hondas is a flat paper element that doesn't look like any sort of foam filter would fit. I guess a flat K&N will be available. Does the KLX have a more typical style air filter? I have read that there are foam off road style filters available for them. A free flowing filter is a must once you bin the exhaust for something more open.

http://world.honda.com/CRF250L/chassis/page02.html
 

Davevb

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May 26, 2011
Bikes
2010 Triumph Thruxton
#56
Just doing a bit of googling about it, here is a drawing of the system. I think this is a higher spec set up though:



Interesting to know if a higher spec set up can be sourced. I guess there will be eventually. It would be cheaper having to only buy 1 spring and 1 damper....Showa use it on the 2011 KX250F but of course has the full range of adjustments. Aparently the advantages are lower weight, less stiction (25%) and lower cost.
 

KTMphil

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#57
Certainly looks like that but can't confirm the components just from looking at it.


Davevb said:
Just doing a bit of googling about it, here is a drawing of the system. I think this is a higher spec set up though:



Interesting to know if a higher spec set up can be sourced. I guess there will be eventually. It would be cheaper having to only buy 1 spring and 1 damper....Showa use it on the 2011 KX250F but of course has the full range of adjustments. Aparently the advantages are lower weight, less stiction (25%) and lower cost.
 

fantic

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Feb 27, 2011
Location
Thailand
Bikes
CRF 250 L
#58
Taninthai said:
fantic said:
Thank's for taking the time to do the test report. Trat finally has 1. I took a good look at it today. The only things that seemed addressing right away IMO is a proper sump guard, folding gear shift lever and someway to bypass the side stand safety switch. My CBR 250 has been great so far so I'm not concerned about the engine. 135000 baht here. Closest Kawi dealer is in Pattaya so Honda it is.
Why and what will you achieve by bypassing the the safety switch on the side stand alot of the cbr 250 owners moan because the bike doesn't have the safety switch

Seen some renthal bars 3000 bht is that a fair price.
I just feel that an electrical switch that low and exposed to all the dirt, mud, water and rocks is not a good thing on a dual purpose motorcycle. OK for a street bike.
 

Pounce

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Jan 23, 2011
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Perth
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'09 DR650 & '09 KTM 450EXC
#59
Taninthai said:
Why and what will you achieve by bypassing the the safety switch on the side stand alot of the cbr 250 owners moan because the bike doesn't have the safety switch
The first time you go over a jump or some big bumps & the stand comes down a bit, you'll know why.
The engine cuts out when the switch is activated. Not something you want to happen on the trails
 

crs

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Jan 12, 2012
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Chiang Rai
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KTM 250 EXC-F
#62
Dealer in CM said they had 3 white ones in stock this afternoon.

That's at 135k. Think I saw one being bought 5 mins later...
 

Captain_Slash

Blokes Who Can
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Jun 28, 2011
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BMW 310GS Kawasaki KLX 150 Honda MSX 125
#63
KTMphil said:
I think Colin told me he was getting 34km to 1 liter of benzine out of his new KLX 250, will check with him.


Taninthai said:
Phil with regards to fuel range I have just been sticking 200 bht in whenever it gets to the last bar on gauge this brings it back up to full 200 bht is about just under 7litre,the first tankfull I think I got somewhere around 90 km from it , but I have been going for the hard break in method so pretty much been caning it up big hills off road in 1st and 2nd gear needles to say I find it uses quite a bit of fuel.
I've put 600 bht in total in so far clock is showing 252 km and tank is 1 bar from full I have also changed my oil at 100km due to the hard break in method

Yes thats about right but thats taking it easy though Phil, I use gasohol 91 but fuel consumption doesnt differ whether you use gasohol or benzine
 

KTMphil

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Chiang Mai, Thailand
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2007 KTM 990 Adventure Suzuki DRZ 400
#64
crs said:
Dealer in CM said they had 3 white ones in stock this afternoon.

That's at 135k. Think I saw one being bought 5 mins later...

Their tactics are quite amusing, they are whispering to people that the price will go up to 145,000 once the first set of inventory has been sold, to get people to jump off the ledge that are undecided.
 

Davevb

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May 26, 2011
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2010 Triumph Thruxton
#65
I reckon you guys should set up a good old fashioned drag race on similarly geared and stock KLX at some point. That would be interesting to see how it goes. Couple of runs and swap bikes to take in account rider skill, weight etc?
 

KTMphil

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2007 KTM 990 Adventure Suzuki DRZ 400
#66
Davevb said:
I reckon you guys should set up a good old fashioned drag race on similarly geared and stock KLX at some point. That would be interesting to see how it goes. Couple of runs and swap bikes to take in account rider skill, weight etc?

Once this is run in, we''ll do that. The Honda CRF 250 L has a 40 tooth rear sprocket as standard and the Kawasaki KLX 250 has a 42 tooth, so this will have to be compensated for.
 

LivinLOS

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Gas Gas 250 (Trials), YZ250 (enduro), DRZ440 (Supermoto) CBR900 Streetfighter (scary !!)
#68
KTMphil said:
crs said:
Dealer in CM said they had 3 white ones in stock this afternoon.

That's at 135k. Think I saw one being bought 5 mins later...

Their tactics are quite amusing, they are whispering to people that the price will go up to 145,000 once the first set of inventory has been sold, to get people to jump off the ledge that are undecided.

Thats common honda tho.. Look at how the PCX pricing crept up..

They do often launch, test market, and then add 5k and or a bit more over the next 12 months.
 

LivinLOS

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Gas Gas 250 (Trials), YZ250 (enduro), DRZ440 (Supermoto) CBR900 Streetfighter (scary !!)
#69
KTMphil said:
Davevb said:
I reckon you guys should set up a good old fashioned drag race on similarly geared and stock KLX at some point. That would be interesting to see how it goes. Couple of runs and swap bikes to take in account rider skill, weight etc?

Once this is run in, we''ll do that. The Honda CRF 250 L has a 40 tooth rear sprocket as standard and the Kawasaki KLX 250 has a 42 tooth, so this will have to be compensated for.
Without knowing the internal gearing or the final drive ratio the rear sprocket size alone tells you very little..

Also its power and useable power, different engine characteristics different appeals (I quite like peaky engines) but a drag is at least a good measure..

Will be along to have a look in a couple of days.
 

Midnitemapper

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Feb 8, 2011
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VIENTIANE, laos
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xt600, xr400 (4)
#70
Front Forks

Do I get that, the front forks, are using one side for the spring, and the other for the damping?
Brilliant Idea does it work?


Great post, very useful, the Laos fleet will be needing upgrading and the venerable Baja and XR 250 are slowly fading into yesteryear/
 

Davevb

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May 26, 2011
Bikes
2010 Triumph Thruxton
#71
Yep.

The ew Kawasaki KX250F motocrosser uses the same idea although that set up is higher spec with full adjustability. It sounds weird but is perfectly fine. Mountain bikes have been doing this for years.
 

LivinLOS

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Gas Gas 250 (Trials), YZ250 (enduro), DRZ440 (Supermoto) CBR900 Streetfighter (scary !!)
#72
I didnt even look at the drawing..

Doesnt that create all kinds of torsion forces and issues ??
 

Davevb

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May 26, 2011
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2010 Triumph Thruxton
#73
No. They would never use it if it did. It is cheaper to produce, only 1 spring and 1 damper (although bigger) Apparently it has the benefit of less stiction and the oil in the damper side doesn't get churned up by the action of the spring. It only carries damping oil in the one side, a little for lubrication in the spring side. I would guess there will be a nice adjustable and uprated damper in the aftermarket world in the making and beefier spring (If one is needed for us heavier guys) Could be good and cheaper than buying 2 dampers and 2 springs to upgrade a normal fork. My guess is Honda went this route mainly for cost. It is yet to be seen if this is the way to go or not.

I'd never heard of it before last night.
 

KTMphil

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Chiang Mai, Thailand
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2007 KTM 990 Adventure Suzuki DRZ 400
#74
The stock front suspension is noticeably stiffer than the Kaw KLX 250, but through the roots and rocks the CRF tracked better, was pretty interesting.


Davevb said:
No. They would never use it if it did. It is cheaper to produce, only 1 spring and 1 damper (although bigger) Apparently it has the benefit of less stiction and the oil in the damper side doesn't get churned up by the action of the spring. It only carries damping oil in the one side, a little for lubrication in the spring side. I would guess there will be a nice adjustable and uprated damper in the aftermarket world in the making and beefier spring (If one is needed for us heavier guys) Could be good and cheaper than buying 2 dampers and 2 springs to upgrade a normal fork. My guess is Honda went this route mainly for cost. It is yet to be seen if this is the way to go or not.

I'd never heard of it before last night.
 

alexuk

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
#75
The FoxForx on my mountain bike are like that, only one spring
And the cannondale Lefty fork has only one leg
 
Joined
May 11, 2012
Bikes
CRF250l, KTM 690E
#76
Thanks for the review, after i read this i popped out this morning to the local Honda dealer to see what the scoop was. They had 2 in stock and 1hr later i was on my way with the first CRF sale in Pattaya.

I was not amazed that when i asked how much, the calculator came out and 145K was punched in, i laughed, took the calculator and punched in 135K. Ok ok no problem! So looks like here in Pattaya any way they are trying to bump up the price already. I also got the offer of a free helmet. When i picked the lid that was 2800 Baht i was then offered 300baht off that price. But in the end i managed to get the helmet for 1800Baht so 1k off the original price.

Bike is a pleasure to ride around town, i am a novice offroad so will wait until i get some proper safety gear before heading into the woods.

Happy Days
 

garethw

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Jan 31, 2012
Location
Pattaya (ish)
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KTM 250 EXC-F
#77
Clarky said:
Thanks for the review, after i read this i popped out this morning to the local Honda dealer to see what the scoop was. They had 2 in stock and 1hr later i was on my way with the first CRF sale in Pattaya.

I was not amazed that when i asked how much, the calculator came out and 145K was punched in, i laughed, took the calculator and punched in 135K. Ok ok no problem! So looks like here in Pattaya any way they are trying to bump up the price already. I also got the offer of a free helmet. When i picked the lid that was 2800 Baht i was then offered 300baht off that price. But in the end i managed to get the helmet for 1800Baht so 1k off the original price.

Bike is a pleasure to ride around town, i am a novice offroad so will wait until i get some proper safety gear before heading into the woods.

Happy Days
There's a couple of places for gear, Bike Lane near the Elephant Village has a stock of boots, trousers, body protection, tops etc etc and may do you a deal on gear, and also Edy's dirt bike on Soi Siam over the railway line on the right heading away from Sukkumvit.

I'm pretty much a novice and have a KLX. If you fancy a ride gimme a shout, I'm home for another week then back to work for 6 more weeks.
 

2wheels

Blokes Who Can
Staff member
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Apr 2, 2012
Location
Chiang Mai
Bikes
Honda Rebel 500
#78
It's disgusting what the Honda dealers are already doing with the asking price for the 250L.
Their greed knows no bounds.
134,900 introductory price to increase to 138,000 'after a month'.
Now we have rumors of a price of 148,000 and their attempt to sting Clarky with 145,000.

At least Kawasaki are consistent with their prices.

Honda did this with their PCX150i too; the asking prices fluctuated a lot from town to town and dealer to dealer within the same town.

Actually, it does seem that Honda dealers may be playing the old 'double pricing' trick on Farang customers.
Hope I'm wrong.
 

Davevb

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Joined
May 26, 2011
Bikes
2010 Triumph Thruxton
#79
I saw this with the CBR as well, It was B10000 dearer in CM than in the little town I came from before I moved. They are free to price at will. I wonder if Kawasaki will respond to the CRF's MSRP (if there is such a thing) and lower the price of the KLX? I doubt it, maybe throw in some extras "on promotion" to counter lost sales.
 

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