Long distance riding

[crs]

I take from your answer, not really answering but instead citing more manuals etc., that you actually never had to find your position anywhere...
BTW, thanks for the instructions but I don't need a military manual to know how to build a sundial...

Look I'm not interested in arguing this at nauseoum with you guys so let's just agree to disagree about the relative precision of each method.

While I know how to find my position with mine...let me ask you one last time clearly and simply...how do you find your current location with your method? ...please humor me...

Bob you are absolutely correct...but I use a slightly more complex compass that has a little ruler and allows to measure angles. That way when the string - with the stone attached to it that I use to make sure the stick is vertical - is placed from the tip of the shadow to the top of the stick I can measure the angle and calculate my latitude. As explained below...and accuracy is guaranteed by drawing a line south to north from the base of the stick so I can get the exact length (and angle) at noon and mark the time of this event, that way I also have my longitude.

When riding in remote areas where points of reference are few and far in between - without a GPS - this method applied daily will let you compare (and confirm) your position to the running fix and insure that you are on course to your destination.

Condescending xxxxxx...

I first learnt and practiced map reading when I was about 12, iirc. Done bushcraft courses inc' nav stuff in the UK when I was older... Not that I've had to do it other then for practice really - and I am no expert - but some practice I have done.

You may be Lawrence of Arabia or Priscilla, Queen of the Desert for all I know - but that doesn't mean I take your word for gospel and ignore the facts...

You keep changing your story - and even what's written in that handbook. One minute you don't need a vertical stick - now you do. The Handbook doesn't say anything about what time of day to do it - but you try say it does...

My method is the method described perfectly clearly in the instruction given in that handbook which I copied and pasted in, FFS... LOOK AT THE DIAGRAM. You were talking about direction first, not location (how did that sneak in?). Remember, you started off with this gem:

No compass, put a stick in the ground, the point where the shadow is shortest points to North when looking from the base of the stick (in the northern hemisphere).

Yes there are other ways, using the sun at solar noon, which you've now started to describe, for calculating coords/location (your compass with protractor has now snuck in too, I see - along with a string and stone to make your stick nice and vertical). But that's not the original subject discussed. Again, it was direction - not location. (I know where you're coming from/going to i.e.. desert nav' but, again, that's changing the subject.)

If you want to say 'your shit and I'm great' again, PM away...

(See Method 4 to know what he's on about: http://www.wikihow.com/Determine-Latitude-and-Longitude Do when you've got no landmarks/features to match up with what's around you and what's on the map.)

 

[bikesncats]

Condescending xxxxxx...

You may be Lawrence of Arabia or Priscilla, Queen of the Desert for all I know - but that doesn't mean I take your word for gospel and ignore the facts...


If you want to say 'your shit and I'm great' again, PM away...

(See Method 4 to know what he's on about: 4 Ways to Determine Latitude and Longitude - wikiHow Do when you've got no landmarks/features to match up with what's around you and what's on the map.)

WOW...and you just called me condescending...

I first learnt and practiced map reading when I was about 12, iirc. Done bushcraft courses inc' nav stuff in the UK when I was older... Not that I've had to do it other then for practice really - and I am no expert - but some practice I have done.

My method is the method described perfectly clearly in the instruction given in that handbook which I copied and pasted in, FFS... LOOK AT THE DIAGRAM. You were talking about direction first, not location....



your compass with protractor has now snuck in too, I see - along with a string and stone to make your stick nice and vertical). But that's not the original subject discussed. Again, it was direction - not location.

So you practiced what you call YOUR METHOD...

No I did not change the subject because if you take my entire post...and not just an extract out of context...the intention was to show how one can find the real position and orient himself to get out of trouble...or to navigate a landscape that does not offer proper points of reference. That was the intention of my post as it said "navigation without GPS" and the meaning - even though I'm not a master of English - has surely come across, at least to anyone that bothered reading the entire post.

Telling Bob what I usually use - as I had mentioned a couple times already I did just a quick reassumption rather then repost the entire exposee with details and background history - is not sneaking something in and changing the story, it's simply that, telling someone what I use. Because I always have a watch with GMT on it and a compass similar to the one we were given in the army.

Just because you are unable to give us an explanation or even just be honest and say that a simple east west line does not allow you to find your own position but only an approximate bearing is not a reason for you to claim that the method I use is wrong.


As I said...we can agree to disagree about which method is more accurate even though any manual will tell you that the 2 point results in an approximate bearing. In my experience gained over years of having to use the method I described I found that the noon shadow is the most accurate reading. And it does allow the user to locate himself on a map fairly accurately.


Let's face it...the only time one does need to apply such measures is when lost...when I'm lost I like to confirm my position on a map with relative accuracy before I do anything else.

Your experience may vary.

.........Remember, you started off with this gem:..........

NO...you cut that gem just a little too much to fit your argument...remember this was the "title" -....exposee on navigation without gps...short version... -

and the gem I started with was this:


No compass, put a stick in the ground, the point where the shadow is shortest points to North when looking from the base of the stick (in the northern hemisphere). Otherwise use these:

Polaris is not always easily visible due to today's pollution, especially here where it is close to the horizon. The Big Dipper is mostly easily visible and recognizable, extending the 2 outermost stars five times the distance between them will give the position of Polaris, even if it is not clearly visible. Also, when horizontal the Big Dipper will lie directly over North.

Another great reference, clearly visible in our location is of course the Southern Cross. Acrux, the star at the base is the closest to South...visually the Southern Cross rotates around the South Pole and the extension if the cross through Acrux will always show true South.

When the aforementioned constellations are asleep then Orion will guide the way. Orion in itself is not easily recognizable, but...the 3 stars that make up the belt of the mighty hunter and the nebula of Orion that highlights the sword make for an arrow like figure. This "arrow" always points towards North, so positioning yourself parallel along the arrow will see you travelling north.

Now remember that stick in the ground?

If you are lost in the middle of Mongolia somewhere and really need to find your position to know which way to travel next then make sure the watch you never leave home without has GMT on it.

When the shadow from the stick is perfectly aligned South-North mark the point of the end of the shadow and mark the exact time.

Your Longitude is given by your GMT time (difference to noon) - 15 degrees for every hour (example if it is 15:35:30) you are at 45,35'30" East
Your Latitude is 90 degrees minus the angle from the tip of the shadow to the top of the stick...plus 1/4 degree for every day after fall equinox going into winter solstice (+23.5deg) or from summer solstice going to fall equinox and minus a 1/4 degree for every day from winter solstice to spring equinox or from spring equinox till summer solstice (-23.5deg).
In the south hemisphere of course deduct form 0 degrees and reverse minus and plus.

with this statement at the end: Sorry if I didn't go into the detail that much anymore...but this should already give you a very good idea and let get more info if you really need to. I hope, and strongly suggest, that everyone actually just try it out.

How you managed to escalate this into an argument about who's right and who's wrong in your own head is beyond me. Use what you find more accurate and let me use whatever method I like...in the end it's all about what method the user feels comfortable using when simply looking for a North bearing...and use the method I described when in need of finding where the heck one ended up.

Edit: just as an additional side note to tackle your urban legend, as I said "...when the shadow is perfectly aligned S-N..." it implies the use of a compass. To determine your position the stick does need to be vertical...but if only used to for N bearing (as you claimed) it doesn't, as little as the 2 point exercise.

 

[crs]

So you practiced what you call YOUR METHOD...when did it become yours. I never claimed that what I use is MY METHOD...I just learned from others what has been working for centuries.

Oh yes, you got me - I was trying to claim that I'd invented that method...

Telling Bob what I usually use...

Telling??? Nice WTF to start off with there...

Just because you are unable to give us an explanation or even just be honest and say that a simple east west line does not allow you to find your own position but only an approximate bearing is not a reason for you to claim that the method I use is wrong.

Where did I ever say you could find your location from the W-E line? Note where I joined in this thread - when you were criticising the stick and shadow W-E line method of finding north. That's all I (and the instructions I referenced) talked about - finding a north direction.

As I said...we can agree to disagree about which method is more accurate even though any manual will tell you that the 2 point results in an approximate bearing. In my experience gained over years of having to use the method I described I found that the noon shadow is the most accurate reading. And it does allow the user to locate himself on a map fairly accurately.

Fine to disagree - but not to ridicule a survival type method that is taught and practiced by professionals and experts.

How you managed to escalate this into an argument about who's right and who's wrong in your own head is beyond me. Use what you find more accurate and let me use whatever method I like...in the end it's all about what method the user feels comfortable using when simply looking for a North bearing...and use the method I described when in need of finding where the heck one ended up.

Do you have any idea of what your posting style can be like? Eg:

Wrong dude...SOO WRONG. I can't believe I'm actually wasting my time with you!

Your method doesn't work...I assume you have absolutely no clue about geometry as well to make such a statement.

I have been doing this for decades...

Apart from the rest of it, you were saying that a method I know to work (and know is taught/used by experts and professionals) doesn't work... I felt that was not OK - misinformation on important topics - so I commented. You really see me as responsible for 'escalating' this?

Although I have no problem with you rationally discussing why you think your method is best, on a subject relating to possible life-saving techniques, I think it only proper to make it clear what method the majority of experts / pro's in this area recommend - and to not let that method be dismissed by a 'doesn't work' - especially on a forum such as this. (It's not my forum and I'm not a Mod or Admin - it's not up to me to decide what can/can't be posted. But, I value the site as a resource for myself and others so feel some motivation to give input when and where I think it is needed.)

Edit: just as an additional side note to tackle your urban legend, as I said "...when the shadow is perfectly aligned S-N..." it implies the use of a compass. To determine your position the stick does need to be vertical...but if only used to for N bearing (as you claimed) it doesn't, as little as the 2 point exercise.

You are right on this point - I'd not thought about it properly and I got that wrong... The other points I made about the advantages of the W-E method and disadvantages of your suggested method are still correct though, IMO. (I see you've now edited the description of your method a bit!) However, I am certainly not saying your method can not work.

 

[Lone Rider]

Guys, please stop the bickering and agree to disagree as it looks like that we are not getting anywhere.

The thread started as LONG DISTANCE RIDING so lets stick with the OT

 

[bikesncats]

Do you have any idea of what your posting style can be like?

I did have an answer to BobS that was over the top and rude...I erroneously bashed him as I mistakenly thought he had posted some BS. We squared off and the issue hardly concerns you.

I have not in the least edited the description of the method I prefer. I also never said the 2 point method doesn't work...I explained that the closer to the tropics one gets, the less accurate the system is (and above of 60 of course) and that here, below the tropic of cancer, in the summer the system will give you totally wrong results when used in early morning and late afternoon. Only around noon it will work. This is hardly misinformation...this is actually informing people properly.

The system you suggest works when one needs an approximate bearing to get out of trouble over short distance finding a road, railway or city, however, it is not accurate enough and incomplete to help finding your position and an accurate bearing when navigating in environment that offers little or no reference points. This thread is about long distance riding and the subject Navigation without GPS...

And with this last comment I'd like to follow the latest advise and get back to Long Distance Riding....so...you win dude, you're the best. Thank you for your addition on Navigation.

 

[2wheels]

Too many years ago a couple of mates and I, all on Honda XL250's, did a holiday ride around the western side of Oz.
Nearing the Nullarbor I 'phoned my boss in Darwin to confirm when I was due back on duty.
I had earlier thought that to be the 11th.
However the call confirmed '7th'.
So some seriously long distance riding was required if we were to return to work on time (or get sacked).
And that's one of my points …. it was required. I wouldn't normally attempt long distances in one stint unless absolutely necessary.



A couple of others aspects were;

Neither of us was properly prepared for the freezing conditions we encountered across the Nullarbor.
In fact we had anticipated them to be hot, so we discarded a lot of clothing near Albany to lighten weight. Wrong.
So I guess, in terms of the topic of this thread, be prepared for changing weather conditions might be a relevant comment.

It's too dangerous to ride that road at night because of wandering wildlife but I recall we did 1080 kms before setting up camp beside the road.
Can't recall how many hours in the saddle.

Speaking of saddle ……. a comfortable seat helps!
We had to improvise, as you can see.

Personally, here in Asia, I'm normally very content 'smelling the roses' as I ride and as a result the daily average on tour is around 300-350kms.
I'm happy with that. Sometimes size doesn't matter.

 

[bikesncats]

Love your improvised "warm jacket" LOL I never had to use a spunge matress as a jacket...surprised you even carried one LOL

Size doesn't matter you're correct...it's what you feel comfortable with.

Great pic...love it, Thanks for sharing this Ron...us old farts, many years ago, we all learned by experience as there was little to go on, not like today.

I'm glad you made it through that one ok and didn't end up smashing into something because of hypothermia...that nasty little thing sneaks up on you unnoticed and before you realize it you're already feeling hot and act irrationally. Being in a group always helps to keeping an eye on eachother and knowing when to rest and find shelter, make a fire and warm up.

 

[2wheels]

Yep, Daryl did look and feel like the Michelin Man.
I recall we took it in turns to 'tail-gate' each other so at least two of us were relatively warmer for a while.
We were also looking for discarded clothing beside the road; and found some surprising/alarming items.
And in the sand-hills at Eucla we actually found a good watch that was still ticking! Bit of a worry actually.

 

[bikesncats]

...findings...
Bit of a worry actually.

You mean...crocs or dingos left some items behind (not so tasty)?

 

[2wheels]

Crocs don't quite make it down as far as the Great Australian Bight Alex.
Maybe if we named it the Great Australian 'Bite' they would!

It was weird because there were no signs of recent human activity in those sand-hills and no other objects there.
Just a ticking watch!
Maybe it belonged to that legendary 'Nullarbor Nymph' … but that's another story.

 

[bikesncats]

Maybe it belonged to that legendary 'Nullarbor Nymph' … but that's another story.

You mean HER? :The Nullarbor Nymph At Forrest on Vimeo


So it wasn't Captain's Hook watch regurgitated...hmmm...maybe it fell off a plain...so many maybes huh? I like the Nullarbor Nymph idea...how many are there?

 

[Pounce]

We did a ride last month.
I'm slowly getting my shit together & doing up a report for here.
Stay tuned.

P1030700

 

[bikesncats]

Awsome set-up my friend...is that a Suzi 650? The tour looks great too, looking forward to reading your report.

 

[Loop]

We did a ride last month.
I'm slowly getting my shit together & doing up a report for here.
Stay tuned.

And the Iron Butt award goes to......

Awesome adventure Pounce.

 

[crs]

Sorry to everyone for taking you back to that argument we were having earlier but I have to admit that I was a little too hasty to "dismiss" the system for these coordinates.

After a little conversation and some extra references from crs I made a little experiment and I must say that I was wrong and the figure I gave BobS was exaggerated. In fact today, June 16th (a day after summer solstice) a 2 point reading taken 13min apart gave a bearing of 298 degrees. That would only be 28 degrees north of true west (not NW as I had erroneously said).

A 28 degree error is approximation enough when one needs to find a baring to get out of trouble over a relative short distance and get to a road, a river or a city. So yes, for such an application this method is certainly good enough anywhere on globe (except above latitude 60).

Having said this...I would like to stress the fact that a 28 degree error is way too much when one requires to navigate over a longer distance in a remote area. However, let's face it, when we venture out there we have a compass and a watch, so the only time one truly requires to apply the 2 point method is in the first scenario, when lost and heading in the approximate direction to get to that railway will get you home, so please accept my apologies for dismissing a perfectly good method.

Nice one, bikesncats.

EDIT:

Already linked to this (have a play - mouse down on globe to move it): http://astro.unl.edu/naap/motion3/animations/sunmotions.swf Good for house design, solar panels, nav, all-sorts...

This is good too: http://www.suncalc.net/#/18.7877,98.9931,12/2014.06.16/09:50

 

[bsacbob]

We did a ride last month.
I'm slowly getting my shit together & doing up a report for here.
Stay tuned.

Pull yer bloody finger out Pounce we are all waiting

 

[jimbobs]

Hi bikesncats I have read your thread in detail
I got mixed up with your overall journey time
It is still 2115klms in 15 ,45 hours with a 3 and a half hour break
On an R9? Ouch
You are one fit guy
I promise you I never meant to hurt your feelings in any way and I do find some of your stories fantastic reading
So I hope there are no hard feelings
I am also a civil engineer/ surveyor who has worked in many remote locations and I have never felt the need to use anything but a compass and a GPS
It's quite interesting listening to the discussion but quite irrelevant in 2014
If you have anything further to add please PM me and we can discuss any issues personally
Regards
Jim

 

[bsacbob]

Gentlemen, good to see this Thread has calmed down and we can all get back to our knitting, as we have said before unlike other forum's RA allow's people to express themselves freely, common sense usually prevails without the need for heavy handed moderation.

Looking at the viewing numbers, this thread has certainly been entertaining quite a few, maybe some of the earlier sections regarding trip prep etc can been moved into a specific thread, with your permission Alex ?

 

[bikesncats]

Gentlemen, good to see this Thread has calmed down and we can all get back to our knitting, as we have said before unlike other forum's RA allow's people to express themselves freely, common sense usually prevails without the need for heavy handed moderation.

Looking at the viewing numbers, this thread has certainly been entertaining quite a few, maybe some of the earlier sections regarding trip prep etc can been moved into a specific thread, with your permission Alex ?

Absolutely nothing against that Bob...as you certainly realized by now writing is not my strength, especially in English, and I get sidetracked a lot so please feel free to move and edit anything you feel requires it.

Jim...if you do put it this way, no harm done. I never hold a grudge either. To be exact though my break was a bit over an hour and the rest was stopping for gas time which added up. The bike was my (now ex) R1...you know, the one that sparked Taliban Tony's jelousy to the point where he had to post a cheap turbo slap on -intake alongside exhaust and no waste gate on a 10,000+RPM engine (anyone taking that kind of crap as tuning confirms an IQ of a doorknob)- to state that I couldn't possibly have more power, but wouldn't bother to come and see for himself. In the end I don't really care what an infantile wonabe thinks...but was kind of put off by seeing my data distorted for the purpose of an attempt to ridicule it (at least that's how I took it, hence my rebuttal).

We'll laugh about it over a beer as soon as I can get beck to riding and get myself up there. Cheers and ride safe.

As for navigation being irrelevant...I've already found myself, just last year actually, without a working GPS (Garmin, and 2 cell phones with Garmin and google...all crapped out on me)...but I did have a map...as we say, better be prepared and not need it then needing it and not having it!

 

[jimbobs]

Ime not going to slag Tony
I find him a decent guy
I also have no negative opinions on you
Some of your exploits do sound a bit extreme but I am just a man who has done a bit but never changed the world or re invented the wheel
I played football and boxed to a decent standard as a youth
I have travelled extensively through Europe and owned many camper vans
I got my love of motorcycles again from Rideasia and GTrider and am proud and pleased and humble enough to accept that there is a lot of knowledge and advice to be given
So thanks and good luck maybe we can have a pint one time
Jim

 

[bikesncats]

Some of your exploits do sound a bit extreme.....

Well...it may looks like that but it kind of became "routine", especially considering what some of my friends did and still do, compared to them I'm tame.

That's one thing I always say...no matter how good you think you are...there's always better people out there. As I mentioned earlier if I bother posting it is not to brag, I know there are plenty of people out there that did a lot more then me, it is to share so we can learn from each other.

 

[johnnysneds]

Any ideas when Season 4 will be kicking off???

 

[Ally]

Any ideas when Season 4 will be kicking off???

I'm looking forward to the Christmas Special !

 

[Ah Boon]

My personal idea "long distance" riding is between 700 and 1000km a day, and that is riding in Thailand, Laos or Cambodia. With riding hours of 10 - 12 hours. For me that is the max, I think the road condition, the traffic conditions combined with the routes I choose to ride (smaller mountain roads) that riding more or longer is a danger to yourself and others.

Living in Khon Kaen the first & last 100 km is always a boring straight & flat road. And I remember twice coming home and being just 70-90km from home that I did still make a stop to rest because I was noticing that met attention was not 100% anymore. And it really does not matter if I come home 30min later.

Me too - I agree.
Last (not very) "long distance" for me was PEN-HKT, June 18, on my FZ150i. Distance about 670km and total time about 10:45. At 73yo and 55 years motorcycling I still like middle to long distance riding. In Thailand and Malaysia I like to depart at daybreak and stop early afternoon so I can rest, recuperate and drink with the locals! Early to bed and early departure next morning.

 

[Ah Boon]

Iv'e always found the best way is to ask the guy passing on the twenty year old step through with bald tyres and five kid's on board the way to the next village, works like a charm :LOL

555 … I like that … 555!

 

[Loop]

Me too - I agree.
Last (not very) "long distance" for me was PEN-HKT, June 18, on my FZ150i. Distance about 670km and total time about 10:45. At 73yo and 55 years motorcycling I still like middle to long distance riding.

Great stuff.I hope i'm capable of something similar at that age.

 

[bikesncats]

Me too - I agree.
Last (not very) "long distance" for me was PEN-HKT, June 18, on my FZ150i. Distance about 670km and total time about 10:45. At 73yo and 55 years motorcycling I still like middle to long distance riding. In Thailand and Malaysia I like to depart at daybreak and stop early afternoon so I can rest, recuperate and drink with the locals! Early to bed and early departure next morning.

Nice trip, especially on a 150...how's that bike running on long stretches like that? I think they will be available here in Thailand soon too...

 

[Ah Boon]

Nice trip, especially on a 150...how's that bike running on long stretches like that? I think they will be available here in Thailand soon too...

Thank you. The FZ150i has been quite remarkable considering it's small displacement. I cruise at 7500 - 8000 RPM (giving between 100 - 110 KPH) [Nothing like the speeds you travel!] At that power setting it does not have a lot left in reserve but taking it to red line (10000) usually suffices. Clearly I need something a little bigger here in SEA and am contemplating a change - but not soon. If you are interested, I posted a ride report on a circumnavigation of Thailand on the same bike I did last year on the GT-Rider site. (Sorry, I have lost the link just at the moment; I will try to find it and post it here. Meanwhile, you can find it on GT-Rider Forums about Southern Thailand trips).
Later last year, I also did a trip on my Thai-registered Kawasaki 125 D-Tracker from HKT to Khammerat (On the Mekong north of Ubon Ratchathani). Three days each way with one 724km day. I modified the bike with a one-tooth bigger front sprocket, a lockable top box and modified seat (of course; like you I believe comfort is important to maintain concentration). But the 125 is a bit too small for my liking. Cheers and happy riding.

 

[Ah Boon]

Great stuff.I hope i'm capable of something similar at that age.

Thank you. Well, all I did was to just keep riding and pretty soon I found I was 60 something and almost everyone was saying I should quit! But being a bit of a cantankerous old git, to say nothing of being contrary, I just kept doing what I like - and now I'm here (at this age) with some of my wits and all of my physiological function. Maybe I should change my motto to "Never give up"!

Cheers and good luck to you - as they say here in Thailand.

 

[bikesncats]

The FZ150i has been quite remarkable considering it's small displacement. I cruise at 7500 - 8000 RPM (giving between 100 - 110 KPH)...

...[Nothing like the speeds you travel!] ...

Clearly I need something a little bigger...

...on the GT-Rider site....

Kawasaki 125 D-Tracker from HKT to Khammerat...

Well Boon, I was considering something in that range for around here and for my GF to have "real" bike again...but you seem to confirm my skepticism about the high revving bike. I believe the Nouvo 135 scooter she has now does the 100Km/h push with less effort.

I do not always travel at speeds like that...those are the exceptions...and becoming rather rare these days. I actually seriously doubt I will ever get to doing such feet again since my R1 is sold and I am pretty certain I won't get one again, I am getting older and slower and my sweet half never did one single ride with me on it. Besides, I wouldn't have the patience nor the will to spend as much money to do build such a sweet ride again...and let's face it, just another stock ride is not interesting. I would get another FJR probably...


An FJR would be something great for your kind of rides...but I do have to admit it is quite a heavy bike. Considering your D-Tracker ride, now that is a feat in itself as I'm not sure I would attempt that to be honest...I believe something dual sport like with some weather protection would be good. Have you looked into the medium sized dual sport around 350cc to 650cc...some are available here in Thailand, Malaysia would be cheaper.

Sorry but gtr and I don't mix...

Cheers and ride safe...

 

[Ah Boon]

Thanks.
No new bike for me just yet - besides, the Yamaha has only done 27,000km and is running as smooth as ever.
BTW, I made a slight mistake in the RPM figures: 7000RPM = 100k, 7500 = 110km approx. The bike doesn't seem to mind the RPM and it has been operating in that region ever since I bought it. (It was 3 months/300km old when I bought it for MYR7000/THB70,000 as opposed to new at about THB82,000 ).
However, I agree the Nouvo 135 would be much more convenient for city/short journeys.
Regards

 

[bikesncats]

Well Ah Boon, looking at the market, the new Honda 250 enduro is 110k with registration and plates included, that could actually make a nice upgrade with little cash to dish out if you trade the Yamaha in. As he new member "Steph" is showing us, a very reliable option as well...and I'm sure many of the seasoned members here have only good things to say about it...the same goes for the trusted CBR250 and now 300..."cheap" and good options

 

[Ah Boon]

bikesncats:
Thanks for the suggestions and your interest. I am back in Malaysia now and due to return to the Southern Summer in New Zealand on September 3. The Yamaha is Malaysian registered so a trade in Thailand is not an option. (Not that it matters as I have th means to "lash- out" on a new bike anyway). Noe of this will happen until I come back to SEA April next year so I will do a bit of research prior to my return.
Meanwhile, the D-Tracker has been sold and the Yamaha now has 32,000km having been from Phuket, across Thailand and into Laos at Pakse, north to Vientiane and a bit of a meander back through Thailand to Phuket and on to Penang. Got a bit wet but had some really good days as well. Most days were around 570+km.
Cheers