2012 Honda CRF250L: CBR250R goes dual-sport

LivinLOS

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#1
2012 Honda CRF250L: CBR250R goes dual-sport



At the Tokyo Motor Show, Honda will be rolling out this great-looking little dual-sport based on the CBR250R’s 18bhp single-cylinder. Why is this news so exciting? Well, the current CRF230L is too slow, too small and too expensive to compete with bikes like the Yamaha WR250R. But, if this 2012 Honda CRF250L is made in Thailand like the CBR, expect a price in the neighborhood of $4k.
Locally produced and may be cheap.. but 18hp ??
 

Davevb

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#3
Interesting competitor to the klx 250 and would benefit from similar mods to un cork it.

But....

Hurry up and sell a 450!!!!
 

jon

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#4
There is a mention of it on the Visor down website and they say 22hp. They also show an image of one that has been blinged up a bit with add ons. Sorry I don't know how to upload a photo.
 

Davevb

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#7
That looks like the business, hope it comes to market soon. It would be great to see this bike (and others?) in the showrooms.
 

monsterman

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#8
I believe that the 22hp is a legal requirement for certain markets and that the bike will be much more potent than that expect 28-33bhp easily
 

LivinLOS

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#10
monsterman said:
I believe that the 22hp is a legal requirement for certain markets and that the bike will be much more potent than that expect 28-33bhp easily

33bhp.. Isnt that about stock drz400 output ??
 

Captain_Slash

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#11
It would certainly make a welcome addition to the bikes available in Thailand
 

Davevb

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#12
Released on Tuesday and available in March apparently. Found too may good roads and trails to not get one now, a 450 will be year(s) out.

It will be interesting to see how it stacks up against the competition, bring it on! :boxing

I get back from work in March. Where do I sign?

Hell, and here's me thinking my bag will be full of Triumph bit's when I get back.... :roll:

 

Davevb

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#14
Lot's of chatter and speculation but looks like it may be priced around what the CBR 250 (non ABS) goes for - B110 000-120 000. Interesting if that will be the case as that makes it a lot cheaper than the KLX. You would have spare baht to make it look like this while showing your mrs the klx price:



 

moonsoon

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#15
Davevb said:
Lot's of chatter and speculation but looks like it may be priced around what the CBR 250 (non ABS) goes for - B110 000-120 000. Interesting if that will be the case as that makes it a lot cheaper than the KLX. You would have spare baht to make it look like this while showing your mrs the klx price:



The price has not been annouced yet. Estimatedly it would be 130000-150000. The distributor in Thailand would launch this model around March. Let see what's going on? However those pics is modified demo for the conference. The real model is surely not that attractive.
 

garethw

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#18
I'm currently looking for a bike and popped into one of the Mityon Honda dealers in Pattaya and was told these will be in stock in March and priced at 112,000 baht. Which is over 40,000 less than Kawasaki quoted me on a new KLX 250.
 

KTMphil

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#20
It will be interesting to see what it does to the second hand prices of KLX 250's. You would have thought that there will be some good second hand KLX 250's available below 90,000 bht in a few months time.



garethw said:
I'm currently looking for a bike and popped into one of the Mityon Honda dealers in Pattaya and was told these will be in stock in March and priced at 112,000 baht. Which is over 40,000 less than Kawasaki quoted me on a new KLX 250.
 

MastaMax

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#26
monsterman said:
I believe that the 22hp is a legal requirement for certain markets and that the bike will be much more potent than that expect 28-33bhp easily
I think you can be more than happy if you can get 22hp out of the bike after all the mods (exhaust, airbox, de-restricting if any). Even 22 seems very optimistic.

A few dyno tests I found on stock 250 bikes:

- KLX 18-19 hp (US carbed version)
- CRF-X 26.6 hp (30 with all free mods + exhaust)
- WRF 32.5 hp (35 with all free mods + exhaust)

The CRF-X has a 12.5:1 compression, the CBR-L (CRF-L is based on the CBR engine) has 10.7:1 compression, it would be foolish to expect the same kind of output (even more based on your statement).
 

LivinLOS

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#27
250 4 stroke.. With Thai emissions and stock..

Will be stunned if its over 20hp stock.. As for 33bhp stock ?!?! isnt that stock DRZ400 territory ??

Not to say it wont be great build quality and a new price point.
 

Stokes70

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#28
MastaMax said:
- KLX 18-19 hp (US carbed version)
- CRF-X 26.6 hp (30 with all free mods + exhaust)
- WRF 32.5 hp (35 with all free mods + exhaust)


.


Max, that statistic can only have come from someone who owns a WR250F!, both great bikes but there is no way on Earth that it makes 5.9hp more than the CRFX in stock trim.
 

MastaMax

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#29
Stokes70 said:
Max, that statistic can only have come from someone who owns a WR250F!, both great bikes but there is no way on Earth that it makes 5.9hp more than the CRFX in stock trim.
After all the "free mods" and a slip-on exhaust it's about 5hp difference. WR is heavier though.

Source:
http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/264499-wr250f-hp-number/

So it looks like 26.63 hp for a CRF 250x and about 32.5 hp for a WR 250f with the stock pipe and grey wire snipped. The dyno doesn't lie
CRF250X struggles to crack 30hp with CRF250R cams & header, opened up airbox, slip-on muffler, jetting.
WR250F pumps out about 35hp with free mods and slip-on.
5hp is a hell of a lot to give up, especially on a 250F.
But anyways, that's not the point here, it's about this CRF250L, it will never reach the 30hp and that's probably the only sure fact here!

Mr Stokes you got you bike? See you tomorrow on the trails for the 1st time :)
 

Stokes70

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#30
Agreed, that isnt the point, but being a Honda fan I cant let idiotic figures like that go unpunished,

Here is a dyno chart I found on Dirtrider.com

A slightly more creditable source than some guy posting in the Yamaha forum on Thumpertalk, not exactly unbiased!!

Here is the graph showing 32.5hp made with the CRF250X, exhaust and cams done




Moving onto the CRF250L, if it is the same engine being used as the CBR250R, then 30hp is achieveable with modifications. At the track the race teams using the CBR250R engine are getting figures around 33-34hp, and this is only the first year of engine tuning they have had, now of course there are maintenance issues here, especially valve train, but is is possible nonetheless..

And yes, see you tommorow, on my way to get a rental KLX250 now!! :DD
 

KTMphil

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#31
My plan is to buy one of the new Honda CRF 250 L's for the rumored list price of 120,000- 130,000 bht.

There is a huge , incredibly competitive Honda CBR 250, track racing community in the Bangkok region , who are allowed to modify these bikes extensively (the main limitation seems to be combined rider and bike weight must be in excess of 140KG (Check)). I'm told modified, the racing Honda CBR 250's are in the region of 34 HP.


With the contacts we have in the Thailand racing scene, it will be easy to find the right bike team that will be able to modify the stock Honda CRF 250 L (which has the same engine as the Honda CBR 250). Talk is to modify the engine similar to the Honda CBR 250 engine modifications will cost around 25,000 bht. An interesting project to built a KLX 250 eater. :MG


They've converted literally 100's of the racing CBR 250's, so there's a lots of experience as to where the problems arise with the performance enhancements, parts will be immediately available, so should be quick and painless getting it done.
 

bill

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#34
KTMphil said:
My plan is to buy one of the new Honda CRF 250 L's for the rumored list price of 120,000- 130,000 bht.

There is a huge , incredibly competitive Honda CBR 250, track racing community in the Bangkok region , who are allowed to modify these bikes extensively (the main limitation seems to be combined rider and bike weight must be in excess of 140KG (Check)). I'm told modified, the racing Honda CBR 250's are in the region of 34 HP.


With the contacts we have in the Thailand racing scene, it will be easy to find the right bike team that will be able to modify the stock Honda CRF 250 L (which has the same engine as the Honda CBR 250). Talk is to modify the engine similar to the Honda CBR 250 engine modifications will cost around 25,000 bht. An interesting project to built a KLX 250 eater. :MG


They've converted literally 100's of the racing CBR 250's, so there's a lots of experience as to where the problems arise with the performance enhancements, parts will be immediately available, so should be quick and painless getting it done.
Sounds interesting Phil
What are the Thai racing CBR engine mods for 25K bht ?
I'm guessing cams and higher compression piston for starters, plus a more open exhaust. Do the CBR racers have a means to adjust the fuel injection ?
Next thing is weight. KLX250 kerb weight is 297lbs/135kg, not exactly a light weight.
Have a feeling the CRF250L wont be much lighter.
 

Stokes70

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#35
Bill, for 25k is basically skimming the head, higher compression piston, and camshaft modifications. aswell as this an API ECU unit will fully adjust ignition and fuel injection, i think they are about 8000baht. then a full exhaust system is about another 8000baht.
minimum weight in the racing i think is 130kgs so yes it will weigh pretty much the same as a klx250 one would think.

newf on this board has a fully modded cbr250 maybe he can put some pictures and maybe a video up of the little screamer!
 

newf

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#36
Stokes70 said:
Bill, for 25k is basically skimming the head, higher compression piston, and camshaft modifications. aswell as this an API ECU unit will fully adjust ignition and fuel injection, i think they are about 8000baht. then a full exhaust system is about another 8000baht.
minimum weight in the racing i think is 130kgs so yes it will weigh pretty much the same as a klx250 one would think.

newf on this board has a fully modded cbr250 maybe he can put some pictures and maybe a video up of the little screamer!
hopefully I'll get ECU tuned up this week and then I'll have a better idea of the extra HP from the mods, plus I might take it down to dirt shop for a quick Dyno run. I believe a stock cbr250 ran at 21hp on their Dyno.

It was 25,000baht to get the engine modded with exhaust because I already had the API tech ECU, but I was quoted 35,000baht if I took my stock bike in. Next time I have it at the track I'll grab a few videos, on and off the track.
 

KTMphil

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#37
newf said:
Stokes70 said:
Bill, for 25k is basically skimming the head, higher compression piston, and camshaft modifications. aswell as this an API ECU unit will fully adjust ignition and fuel injection, i think they are about 8000baht. then a full exhaust system is about another 8000baht.
minimum weight in the racing i think is 130kgs so yes it will weigh pretty much the same as a klx250 one would think.

newf on this board has a fully modded cbr250 maybe he can put some pictures and maybe a video up of the little screamer!
hopefully I'll get ECU tuned up this week and then I'll have a better idea of the extra HP from the mods, plus I might take it down to dirt shop for a quick Dyno run. I believe a stock cbr250 ran at 21hp on their Dyno.

It was 25,000baht to get the engine modded with exhaust because I already had the API tech ECU, but I was quoted 35,000baht if I took my stock bike in. Next time I have it at the track I'll grab a few videos, on and off the track.

Colin, we've been told you should see 33-34HP on the dyno is this roughly right? Do you know of anyone that has a dyno print out of a converted CBR 250 that we can see?
 

LivinLOS

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#38
Also do those engines hold together without grenading ?? How about cooling (more important on a dual sport) ??

I would tend to think 33hp is getting ambitious for a 250 4 stroke and keeping it reliable.. But even so a balance in the high 20's would still be very appealing.
 

KTMphil

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#39
Weight of a road legal dirt bike will be the issue for many. The talk seems to be that the Honda CRF 250 L will weigh 121 KG dry (check).


The Kawasaki KLX 250 comes in at 135 KG, so the price and weight saving should make the Honda CRF 250 L very attractive, watch those second hand KLX 250 prices in a few months.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2012/ ... other.html
 

Stokes70

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#40
Making the power from a 250 4 strokes isnt the problem, AMA supercross 250's can make in excess of 50hp. Like LIVINLOS said though the issue comes with reliability. I would have thought that high 20's hp is easily achievable whilst retaining a very reasonable level of reliability. If you stuck with exhaust, ECU, maybe a cheeky compression bump up and minor cam modifications then I see no reason why it cant be done.
The main issues with reliability I'm Told come when the valves and valve springs are extensively modified, this is what can give them the extra bit of horsepower but the maintenance then becomes an hourly figure. not what I guess most people here would want.
 

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