Restricted areas in Laos

KTMphil

KTMphil

Senior member
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Location
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Bikes
2007 KTM 990 Adventure Suzuki DRZ 400
Restricted areas in Laos

There are a number of no-go/ restricted areas in Laos, sneaking into these areas can get you into a whole load of trouble.



1. Long Chen (Tieng) Lima site 20A - CIA base during the Vietnam war

Co-ordinates: 19.10 N 102.93E

Long Tieng (also spelled Long Chieng, Long Cheng, or Long Chen) is a Laotian military base located in Xiangkhouang Province.[2] During the Laotian Civil War, it served as a town and airbase operated by the Central Intelligence Agency of the United States.[3] During this time, it was also referred to as Lima Site 98 (LS 98) or Lima Site 20A (LS 20A).

At the height of its significance in the late 1960s, the "secret city" of Long Tieng maintained a population of 40,000 inhabitants, making it the second largest city in Laos at the time,[4] although it never appeared on maps throughout this period.

Full text here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Tieng

long chen zoomed.jpg
Map copyright: GT Mapper

Long Chen airstrip
250px-T-28D.jpg



2. Lima site 85 - USA military radar installation during the Vietnam war

Co-ordinates: 20.43 N 103.72E

The Battle of Lima Site 85, also called Battle of Phou Pha Thi, was a battle of the Vietnam War that resulted in the largest single ground combat loss of United States Air Force members in that war.[2] The site was located atop Phou Pha Thi; a mountain in Viengxay District, Houaphanh Province, Laos, 15 miles (24 km) from the border of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (DRV or North Vietnam) and 30 miles (48 km) from Sam Neua, capital of the Pathet Lao.

Full text here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lima_Site_85

Lima 85 zoomed.jpg
Map copyright: GT Mapper


Lima 85 radar site
220px-LimaSite85-descriptions.jpg



3. Xaysambourne

Co-ordinates: 19N 103.25 E

Lone Rider did get stopped here 3 weeks ago and was asked for copies of their passports

xaysombourne.jpg
Map copyright: GT Mapper
 
When possible avoid military areas like army camps, etc. as you might be in for some tough questioning on why you entered their areas in particular near restricted areas . Normally there are guards at the army camps and if they see non-military vehicles coming they will close the gate with a rope and ask what you want. Unfortunately sometimes these guys are doing other things and when you enter you can expect a not-so-friendly welcome.

LogoLaoArmy.jpg


So, if you see a gate with this kind of sign or something similar on it just be careful and don't enter without approval.
 
During the Vietnam war a lot of ordnance was dumped on Laos - it is the most heavily bombed country on earth. The UXO people are busy removing the unexploded stuff but ther are still a lot of these bombs lying around and waiting to go off. While these areas are not restricted, care should be taken when you enter these areas and it is best to stay on the beaten track.

BombingMaps.jpg


This map shows the areas most heavily bombed but, in case you want to have a better overview you can download maps for each Lao province from here http://lao-usa.info/images/stories/pdf/Bombing-maps-laos.pdf
 
This was 5 weeks ago between Xam Nuea and Vieng Xay - about 30 UXO Laos Govt personnel looking for bombs

file.php



Lone Rider said:
During the Vietnam war a lot of ordnance was dumped on Laos - it is the most heavily bombed country on earth. The UXO people are busy removing the unexploded stuff but ther are still a lot of these bombs lying around and waiting to go off. While these areas are not restricted, care should be taken when you enter these areas and it is best to stay on the beaten track.

BombingMaps.jpg


This map shows the areas most heavily bombed but, in case you want to have a better overview you can download maps for each Lao province from here http://lao-usa.info/images/stories/pdf/Bombing-maps-laos.pdf
Click to expand...
 
Watch out in particular for the remnants of the cluster-munitions or what they call "bombies" in Laos. They are quite small but can be lethal.

GEDC0049doc.jpg
GEDC0038doc.jpg

The head of the MAG office in Xiengkhuang (Phonsavan) inspecting a live bombie (left) and on the right spoons being made by melting the aluminum and pouring the molten aluminum in the mold

This picture was taken in Ban Napia (the spoon making village) where they make spoons out of aluminum war scrap. Went there with some MAG people from Phonsavan and when we asked to see the war scrap the guy showed us a wok full of scrap including a bombie with the re-assurance - don't worry, I put a wire in it so that it won't go off.
 
Re Xaysomboun, Rt 5 east of Rt 13N no longer goes through, it's been flooded out by the Nam Ngum 2 Dam. Only reasonable access is from the south at Tha Bok, Km 92 on Rt 13S.

Note, tho, that XSB is still semi "restricted" perhaps because it was so recently a "Special Zone" and the authorities haven't gotten over that. Indeed, there is still the occasional "security" incident in the area.

Mac
 
This is a super useful thread, thanks Phil and everyone !
I shall bookmark it and read it before I ride into Laos.

Newbie question here: all these mines and bombs etc, they have been completely removed from roads and trails, or not ? If I stick to the road, I should be fine, yeah ? (what, who's freaking out?)
Also, about the military camps: if I see a gate, no one manning it, no little sign like Lone Rider posted, what's the worst that can happen if I proceed ? (I don't intend to play Indiana Jones, but let's say it's on one of the roads I chose to take). How is the spoken English, can you communicate with the military or you're in for a sign language session because your Laotian is non-existent ?
 
Yes, most of the roads and trails which are used on a regular basis are free of unexploded stuff so I would not worry about that (at least I don't on my travels) - lots of people are traveling in Laos on motorbikes and have no problems as you also can see from their trip reports. It is only, when you are really going into remote areas and off the beaten track that you have to be careful, in particular in the heavily bombed areas. The following is an excerpt of a trip report from David and Mai who rode along the Ho-Chi-Min trail in the south of Laos.

QUOTE:UXO – unexploded ordinance (copied with permission from David and Mai who posted this on another forum). Taking a moment to be serious. Mai no longer walks off into the bushes when in areas such as this.
797905660_TpUKH-M.jpg
797905718_8xPoG-M.jpg
797905744_VZ5tM-M.jpg

When we came upon 2 MAG teams, they were working and marking within 50 centimeters of the roads edge. One of the MAG workers was a lady and she and Mai compared notes on bathroom etiquette – there are none – only safety first; don’t leave the main track/road!
UNQUOTE

With regard to Military areas, your chance of wandering into these are extremely small and in case it would happen, the worst that probably could happen is that you would be questioned why you entered their area.

The level of English in general is low or non-existent in non-tourist rural areas but in the areas frequented by tourists like Luang Prabang, Vang Vieng, Vientiane, etc. you can expect a reasonable level of English.
 
Phou Khao Khouay National Park Checkpoint
These are no problem unless you are in the endangered wildlife trade or unlicensed logging.

checkpoint.jpg
National park Checkpoint
These are no problem unless you are in the endangered wildlife trade or unlicensed logging.
national-park.jpg

This is an example of
**Military Base No Entry**
military-base.jpg
 
East north east of Phongsali, a military camp, there was no way this guy was letting me get any further ( I think the lost in translation gave him a headache too)

5568586792_d196cc869a_b.jpg
 
Maybe this should not be here but when you are riding the HCM trail be very carefull that you don't leave the trodden tracks and trails due to the large amount of UXO (unexploded bombies, etc.) lying around. The Vientiane Times of today has a story about the dangers:

January 28, 2012 - Vientiane Times

Four children were killed and two children and one woman were injured in Savannakhet province on Monday after a cluster bomb exploded while the children huddled around a fire to keep warm. The tragic incident occurred in Tamluang village, Nong district, after the children started a fire in their backyard to warm themselves in the evening chill. The cluster bomb, or bombie, was identified as a Blu 26, a small but deadly explosive designed to maim and kill.

Ban Tamlouang.PNG

“The bomb was buried in the ground where the woman and six children were burning wood, so when it heated up it exploded, killing and injuring these poor children and the woman,” UXO Lao provincial coordinator Mr Soubinh Phasouking told Vientiane Times on Friday.

Three of the children died instantly from shrapnel wounds and another died later in hospital due to the extent of his injuries. The three survivors suffered serious burns to their legs, and risk infection. However, they were very lucky that the blast characteristics meant they suffered no upper body injuries. Of the four children who died, three were boys – Sack aged 12, Chith aged 10, and Touk aged 10. A little girl named Ser, aged 3, was also killed. Those who were injured in the explosion were named as Ms Khale, 28, and two boys, Mued aged 11 and Ya-ok aged 9.
 
We rode that trail in December, there where UXO people working on the trail.

They where areas on the side of the trail that they have marked for checking, feet from where we ride. This certainly brings it home how dangerous the area is.

God bless the poor families that lost life.

:cry
 
In light of alexuk's & Lone Riders recent posts, what's the best advice for those without local knowledge, language skills or experience in getting stopped & threatened by those with the guns?
If it wasn't for some of the posts here, there's some great tracks & routes I would l have planned to do this next trip but won't now thanks to them.
How does someone know where not to go if it isn't posted or published?
The posts & advice by MM on the Military & Police signs is easy to follow. But what if we're on some track somewhere & get an AK-47 waved in our face?
There's probably going to be 6 of us, so is the best option pleading poor, (already plan to hide most of the cash) ignorance & shrugging then turn around. Would they bother with the large group as much as 1 or 2 people, so would 6 people be a hassle to take the bikes & detain? Does that work in our favour?
Also something to consider is one of our group will be a girl, so is there any particular precautions to take in that regards?
I'll probably have some follow up questions once these get answered.
Thanks
 
Lone Rider said:
During the Vietnam war a lot of ordnance was dumped on Laos - it is the most heavily bombed country on earth. ...<snip>..
Click to expand...

FWIW...'2-cents worth:
Laos is the most heavily bombed country on earth...based on population, whereas Cambodia is the most heavily bombed country based on tonnage of ordinance, which was only slightly more than Laos received. Regardless, the lingering sadness of the bombing during the Vietnam fiasco is that it is estimated that every year there continue to be over 100 new casualties in Laos. Close to 60% of the accidents result in death, and 40% of the victims are children.
 
Hot Spots Not to go...
The areas to the East of Road 13N between M Kasi to M Phoukhoun should be avoided.
The areas South of Road 7 between M Phoukhoun and Phonsavan should be avoided.
These are not areas for tourists, as the presence of many army camps indicates.
 
Here in Laos there seems to be more and more incidents were tourists, mostly on motorcycles. Have been detained and "fined" by police.

The area around Phou Koun being rather active at the moment, there have been at least 4 groups pulled into this police station with "fines" up to 4,000 baht.
If you are riding in Laos, stay clear of the areas East of Kasi 13N and South of Phou Khoun on road 7. Were once the occasional tourist wandering in this area was a nuisance, you are now a [highlight=#ffff40:3e5slmlp]$$$$[/highlight:3e5slmlp] money to be taken. This is the unfortunate reality, of a pattern of people paying to avoid a sticky situation.

Most recently Alex's encounter...
laos-ride-reports/11-days-solo-in-north-laos-t1737.html
 
A couple of photo's from Mac from his last trip to the restricted, ex CIA base, Long Tieng (near Phonsavan)

lt1.jpg



lt2.jpg
 
it is the most heavily bombed country on earth
Click to expand...

Does anyone know for sure if the USA government is actively contributing to the clean-up of their mess?
 
2wheels said:
Does anyone know for sure if the USA government is actively contributing to the clean-up of their mess?
Click to expand...

From what I heard they are giving monetary aid only into MAG but as far as I know, no physical presence at all

I could be mistaken though
 
I saw the all-women MAG team at work when I was there in Sept-Oct this year. The US State Dept was funding it (Hillary Clinton) and that particular team at least was well equipped

051-1.jpg


Pretty small beer in the scale of things though.... struck me as a token effort just capitalising on the all-women bit.
 
Might be getting old but saw this article in the Vientiane Times of today and just want to reproduce it here as another warning not to go off the beaten track in Laos as the danger of un-exploded ordnance or UXO is real in particular along the Ho-Chi-Minh routes - only 1% of the area that must be cleared has been cleared

UXO: bigger bombs rendered safe and kept for posterity

Laos will begin to collect the bigger unexploded ordnance (UXO) discovered through clearance operations to keep evidence for explaining to future generations who dropped these bombs on their country and why, Director of the National Regulatory Authority (NRA), Mr Phoukhieo Chanthasomboun told the Vientiane Times yesterday. Current practice is to explode the bombs when they are discovered in order to clear the land for agriculture but in future the NRA will work with the Lao UXO Programme (UXO Lao) to collect them. The NRA last week organised a local press tour to Saravan province which was heavily bombed during the Indochina War from 1964 to 1973.

UXO.png

An explosion site used by UXO Lao in Dongbangphanay village in Lau-ngam district was one place the journalists visited. It has 69 large bombs waiting to be destroyed but these will not now be exploded, only defused to render them harmless, and then they can be collected and taken away. The site has a 2,000 pound bomb, nine 750 pounders, 50 500 pounders and some 200 and 100 pound items. “If we detonate them all we will not have any evidence to show our children that the bombs in Laos were dropped by America,” Mr Phoukhieo explained. The Provincial Coordinator of UXO Lao, Mr Liammixay Keokangmeuang said that all of the bombs in this explosion site were cleared from the two districts of Ta-oy and Samuoy last month. In Saravan, most of the bombs dropped by American airplanes were the bigger explosive devices, from 100 to 3,000 pounds, but the 500 pounders were the ones most frequently found during clearance operations.

Saravan has an area of over 1 million hectares but, of these, 600,000 hectares were contaminated with UXO items. “We have extracted and exploded more than 900 big bombs from 3,180 hectares in 15 years,” Mr Liammixay added. Some 50 people were killed and 96 injured between 1997 and 2013, but from 1973 to 1996 it was reported that 1,010 people suffered from UXO accidents and only half of them survived. Deputy Governor of Saravan province Mr Siheng Homsombat said that he wished to see 100,000 hectares of contaminated land cleared by the end of 2015, but this seems hardly likely when only 3,180 hectares could be cleared in 15 years. Fourteen provinces in Laos were bombarded by enemy aircraft during the Indochina war from 1964 to 1973. Over 2 million tonnes of ordnance were dropped on the country by the warplanes, including about 288 million cluster munitions. Some 75 million unexploded bombs were left across Laos after the war finally ended. Since 1996 UXO clearance o perations have covered almost 32,000 hectares of previously contaminated land. However, progress remains very slow, as this figure represents only 1 percent of all the land that must be cleared.

By Khonesavanh Latsaphao
(Latest Update June 11, 2013)
Vientiane Times
 
It's become very popular in the last couple of years, looks like it might be best to stay on known/ mapped tracks.




Lone Rider said:
Might be getting old but saw this article in the Vientiane Times of today and just want to reproduce it here as another warning not to go off the beaten track in Laos as the danger of un-exploded ordnance or UXO is real in particular along the Ho-Chi-Minh routes - only 1% of the area that must be cleared has been cleared

UXO: bigger bombs rendered safe and kept for posterity

Laos will begin to collect the bigger unexploded ordnance (UXO) discovered through clearance operations to keep evidence for explaining to future generations who dropped these bombs on their country and why, Director of the National Regulatory Authority (NRA), Mr Phoukhieo Chanthasomboun told the Vientiane Times yesterday. Current practice is to explode the bombs when they are discovered in order to clear the land for agriculture but in future the NRA will work with the Lao UXO Programme (UXO Lao) to collect them. The NRA last week organised a local press tour to Saravan province which was heavily bombed during the Indochina War from 1964 to 1973.

View attachment 17990

An explosion site used by UXO Lao in Dongbangphanay village in Lau-ngam district was one place the journalists visited. It has 69 large bombs waiting to be destroyed but these will not now be exploded, only defused to render them harmless, and then they can be collected and taken away. The site has a 2,000 pound bomb, nine 750 pounders, 50 500 pounders and some 200 and 100 pound items. "If we detonate them all we will not have any evidence to show our children that the bombs in Laos were dropped by America," Mr Phoukhieo explained. The Provincial Coordinator of UXO Lao, Mr Liammixay Keokangmeuang said that all of the bombs in this explosion site were cleared from the two districts of Ta-oy and Samuoy last month. In Saravan, most of the bombs dropped by American airplanes were the bigger explosive devices, from 100 to 3,000 pounds, but the 500 pounders were the ones most frequently found during clearance operations.

Saravan has an area of over 1 million hectares but, of these, 600,000 hectares were contaminated with UXO items. "We have extracted and exploded more than 900 big bombs from 3,180 hectares in 15 years," Mr Liammixay added. Some 50 people were killed and 96 injured between 1997 and 2013, but from 1973 to 1996 it was reported that 1,010 people suffered from UXO accidents and only half of them survived. Deputy Governor of Saravan province Mr Siheng Homsombat said that he wished to see 100,000 hectares of contaminated land cleared by the end of 2015, but this seems hardly likely when only 3,180 hectares could be cleared in 15 years. Fourteen provinces in Laos were bombarded by enemy aircraft during the Indochina war from 1964 to 1973. Over 2 million tonnes of ordnance were dropped on the country by the warplanes, including about 288 million cluster munitions. Some 75 million unexploded bombs were left across Laos after the war finally ended. Since 1996 UXO clearance o perations have covered almost 32,000 hectares of previously contaminated land. However, progress remains very slow, as this figure represents only 1 percent of all the land that must be cleared.

By Khonesavanh Latsaphao
(Latest Update June 11, 2013)
Vientiane Times
Click to expand...
 
So is it possible to ride from northern Laos all the way to the south and enter into Cambodia? Will be traveling by the main road or highway (if any). Not going to go by any unbeaten track. Is there any international crossing at the south of Laos to Cambodia? Please advice. Thank you.
 
Tanarthur said:
So is it possible to ride from northern Laos all the way to the south and enter into Cambodia? Will be traveling by the main road or highway (if any). Not going to go by any unbeaten track. Is there any international crossing at the south of Laos to Cambodia? Please advice. Thank you.
Click to expand...

Yes it is, no problem as long as you stay on the main roads.

Just follow the main road 13 until you hit Cambodia and you are at the Donglor/Dongkalaw international crossing.

Border Crossings Map
 
Thanks.. Finally found what I am looking for after so many months...
 
Grathiam said:
FWIW...'2-cents worth:
Laos is the most heavily bombed country on earth...based on population, whereas Cambodia is the most heavily bombed country based on tonnage of ordinance, which was only slightly more than Laos received. Regardless, the lingering sadness of the bombing during the Vietnam fiasco is that it is estimated that every year there continue to be over 100 new casualties in Laos. Close to 60% of the accidents result in death, and 40% of the victims are children.
Click to expand...

Once more a warning to be carefull going of the beaten track:

Two children killed by UXO explosion in Saravane

(KPL) Two children have been reported killed in an explosion in Na Dou Yai Village, Toumlane District, Saravane Province on 13 December, according to UXO Laos. The victims have been identified as Sithai, 12, and Phota, 13. Local authorities said that the explosion occurred when the boys used a device they found in the forest as a boule in a game of petanque. The explosion killed the two children instantly. Saravane is the third most bombed province in the Lao PDR and reports two UXO-related deaths every year.

:: KPL :: Lao News Agency

Nadou Gnai is located along road 23 / 1G just a bit north of the bombed out bridge (Prince Souphannavong Bridge) over the Xe Don river between Rd 15 and Toumlan
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Lone Rider Floods in various areas in Laos Laos Information 0
Similar threads
Floods in various areas in Laos
Back
Top Bottom