KTM 125 New Stroke Hybrid

LUFC

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Joined
Jun 21, 2011
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Berg 300, KTM 350, Trials Scoot
Looks cool, I like the wheels, nice to see a bit more invention from KTM for dirt bikes.
 

Loop

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Oct 19, 2011
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VFR 800 PCX 150
I like the innovation there.

Leaf spring shock,monocoque chasis`s and direct injection @ 40 something bhp...wow!!

Hopefully the Jap manufacturers wont want to be outdone and start making something similar too.
 

LivinLOS

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Feb 10, 2011
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Gas Gas 250 (Trials), YZ250 (enduro), DRZ440 (Supermoto) CBR900 Streetfighter (scary !!)
Loads of innovation is great.. but too much untested tech may not be..
 

bigntall

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Direct injection on the two strokes is whats needed. I heard rumors of KTM doing it in 2014 but just assumed it would be on the current enduro bikes. There is some fun tech for sure on the bike but they're having issues with just FI on some of their dirt bikes. This seems a looooong jump for them tech wise. Though hats off to them for progressing with new tech if it comes about. I've never seen mag wheels survive on a dirt bike yet and not sure of any benefits. 235 poounds dry is a bit porky considering their current 200 cc enduro bikes are 209 pounds.
 

LivinLOS

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Feb 10, 2011
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Gas Gas 250 (Trials), YZ250 (enduro), DRZ440 (Supermoto) CBR900 Streetfighter (scary !!)
Yeah the weight stood out to me too for a 125 sized frame.. Tho you have to wonder how and if the hybrid element really brings its weight to the table or if its a soundbite to please the tree huggers.

And yes fully mappable DI for smokers seems like a huge deal, but not getting the development money it could and possibly should get. The mapping of this can apparently make a smoker have the like of customizable power delivery that is tourquey or however its chosen to be dialed in.
 

KTMphil

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Jan 11, 2011
Location
Chiang Mai, Thailand
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2007 KTM 990 Adventure Suzuki DRZ 400
I don't understand why it's so heavy either. The Mag wheels could mean all the headaches around inner tubes would be over, if they can survive, which i doubt too.


Direct injection on the two strokes is whats needed. I heard rumors of KTM doing it in 2014 but just assumed it would be on the current enduro bikes. There is some fun tech for sure on the bike but they're having issues with just FI on some of their dirt bikes. This seems a looooong jump for them tech wise. Though hats off to them for progressing with new tech if it comes about. I've never seen mag wheels survive on a dirt bike yet and not sure of any benefits. 235 poounds dry is a bit porky considering their current 200 cc enduro bikes are 209 pounds.
 

LivinLOS

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Feb 10, 2011
Bikes
Gas Gas 250 (Trials), YZ250 (enduro), DRZ440 (Supermoto) CBR900 Streetfighter (scary !!)
Inner tubes may make headaches.. But they are at least serviceable in the bush..
 

Loop

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Bikes
VFR 800 PCX 150
It will certainly have bugs to iron out of it/refining i`m sure,i just like the direction it`s headed in and the fact that a 2 stroke is seen as the way forward :D
 

garethw

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Jan 31, 2012
Location
Pattaya (ish)
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KTM 250 EXC-F
Where does it mention Mag Wheels? It states composite flex spokes. A lot of composite manufactured components are or can be stronger and lighter than metal including Mag.
 

LivinLOS

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Feb 10, 2011
Bikes
Gas Gas 250 (Trials), YZ250 (enduro), DRZ440 (Supermoto) CBR900 Streetfighter (scary !!)
A rose by any other name ;) ??

Now I think about it.. Why are BMX wheels called mag wheels ?? they are not made of magnesium ??
 

garethw

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Pattaya (ish)
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KTM 250 EXC-F
A rose by any other name ;) ??

Now I think about it.. Why are BMX wheels called mag wheels ?? they are not made of magnesium ??
:LOLI had to google that.......[h=1]What does "Mag" mean in reference to BMX wheels?[/h]The earliest modern lightweight automobile racing wheels were made of magnesium alloy and were called "mags." Now, anything that remotely resembles them is called a mag, whether it is made of aluminum (usually), plastic, or whatever. It's now just a slang for a wheel type -- one that is neither disk nor conventional spoke -- and not a reference to the material.

Real magnesium wheels were banned from auto racing years ago because they are flammable!
 

Captain_Slash

Blokes Who Can
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Jun 28, 2011
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BMW 310GS Honda Wave 125 Honda MSX 125
I think those wheels are great, does direct injection help to solve the 2 strokes biggest problem, ie excessive fuel consumption?
 

MastaMax

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Apr 28, 2011
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15 Yamaha YZ250F / 08 Husky 450SMR / 13 ER6N / 13 KTM 300XCW(sold)
I think those wheels are great, does direct injection help to solve the 2 strokes biggest problem, ie excessive fuel consumption?
Athena are developing DI kits and they claim 50% less fuel consumption and more power in their adverts (on a 50cc bike):

 

LivinLOS

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Feb 10, 2011
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Gas Gas 250 (Trials), YZ250 (enduro), DRZ440 (Supermoto) CBR900 Streetfighter (scary !!)
The Ossa 280 that was alleged to be going past prototype to real product was loads of new tech, reversed engine layout, DI, all kinds of stuff.
 

LivinLOS

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Gas Gas 250 (Trials), YZ250 (enduro), DRZ440 (Supermoto) CBR900 Streetfighter (scary !!)
Yes in the link is the one I meant, had a clearer write up somewhere (maybe 2 stroke motocross site) as theres quite a bit of innovation stacked into it.

The bike in the link not being the bike pictured, tho perhaps they share the engine setup.
 

Loop

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Bikes
VFR 800 PCX 150
DI or not?
Consensus seems to be not on the Ossa although the Orbital system seems to be.

2011 Ossa TR280i Riding Impression - Trial Bikes - Dirt Rider Magazine

Wiki..

The benefits of direct injection are even more pronounced in two-stroke engines, because it eliminates much of the pollution they cause. In conventional two-strokes, the exhaust and intake ports are both open at the same time, at the bottom of the piston stroke. A large portion of the fuel/air mixture entering the cylinder from the crankcase through the intake ports goes directly out, unburned, through the exhaust port. With direct injection, only air comes from the crankcase, and fuel is not injected until the piston rises and all ports are closed.
Some Goliath two stroke cars built in the early 1950s had direct injection, but their engines were soon superseded by four strokes.

Two types of GDi are used in two-strokes: low-pressure air-assisted, and high-pressure. The former, developed by Orbital Engine Corporation of Australia (now Orbital Corporation) injects a mixture of fuel and compressed air into the combustion chamber. When the air expands it atomizes the fuel. The Orbital system is used in motor scooters manufactured by Aprilia, Piaggio, Peugeot and Kymco, in outboard motors manufactured by Mercury and Tohatsu, and in personal watercraft manufactured by Bombardier Recreational Products (BRP).
In the early 1990s, Ficht GmbH of Kirchseeon, Germany developed a high-pressure direct injector for use with two stroke engines. Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) licensed the technology in 1995 and introduced it on a production outboard engine in 1996.[43][44] OMC purchased a controlling interest in Ficht in 1998.[45] Beset by extensive warranty claims for its Ficht outboards and prior and concurrent management-financial problems, OMC declared bankruptcy in December 2000 and the engine manufacturing portion and brands (Evinrude Outboard Motors and Johnson Outboards), including the Ficht technology, were purchased by BRP in 2001.[46][47]

Evinrude introduced the E-Tec system, an improvement to the Ficht fuel injection, in 2003, based on U.S. patent 6,398,511. In 2004, Evinrude received the EPA Clean Air Excellence Award for their outboards utilizing the E-Tec system.[48] The E-Tec system has recently also been adapted for use in performance two-stroke snowmobiles.

Yamaha also has a high-pressure direct injection (HPDI) system for two-stroke outboards. It differs from the Ficht/E-Tec and Orbital direct injection systems because it uses a separate, belt driven, high-pressure, mechanical fuel pump to generate the pressure necessary for injection in a closed chamber. This is similar to most current 4-stroke automotive designs.
EnviroFit, a non-profit corporation sponsored by Colorado State University, has developed direct injection retrofit kits for two-stroke motorcycles in a project to reduce air pollution in Southeast Asia, using technology developed by Orbital Corporation of Australia.[49] The World Health Organization says air pollution in Southeast Asia and the Pacific causes 537,000 premature deaths each year. The 100-million two-stroke taxis and motorcycles in that part of the world are a major cause.
 
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