Kawasaki KX450 F Aluminum Frame

[KTMphil]

Kawasaki KX450 F Aluminum Frame

Nae (Nair) from the Chiang Mai Motorcross shop just received a later model, aluminum framed, Kawasaki KX 450 F.

It's immaculate and would be a fantastic trail bike for SE Asia. I think its for sale for just over 200,000 bht with no registration, invoices only.

 

[AlexUSA]

Very cool motocross bike you'd have to throw quite a bit more money at it to make it ride-able on trails and gear ratios might still be kinda funky even with a new sprocket. Then you've gotta do the valves every other day (15 hours per Kawasaki info).

 

[LivinLOS]

Great fun, but the problem with all these high performance engined bikes in Thailand is the service schedules. I want a bike i service in miles not hours. Plus a big difference between motocross demands and trail riding IMO.

If and when Kwaker sell them, if a full parts supply chain and mechanics who can do routine servicing.. These kind of machines are a temptation but not for my real world uses. The WR450 is about the only one that get the performance v service balance in the useable side IMO.

 

[KTMphil]

Sef - I'd love to agree with you & i thought the same BUT -

Look at Johnny Sned's Yamaha WR 450f ...he being doing some big trips & the only real issue he's had is a sticky carb float from gasohol ... he must have done 4,000km in north Thailand on it & what a machine ---

He changes the oil after every big trip -- hard to argue with this ....

Great fun, but the problem with all these high performance engined bikes in Thailand is the service schedules. I want a bike i service in miles not hours. Plus a big difference between motocross demands and trail riding IMO.

If and when Kwaker sell them, if a full parts supply chain and mechanics who can do routine servicing.. These kind of machines are a temptation but not for my real world uses. The WR450 is about the only one that get the performance v service balance in the useable side IMO.

 

[bill]

Rumor on the other CM website that the KLX450 will be sold in Thailand next year..

 

[MastaMax]

Rumor on the other CM website that the KLX450 will be sold in Thailand next year..

Now that would be great...

 

[KTMphil]

Rumor on the other CM website that the KLX450 will be sold in Thailand next year..

Now that would be great...

2 sets of wheels and would be perfect for SE Asia

 

[MastaMax]

With a tiny bit of modification you get one of the best bikes out here:

Now I hope the rumor is true and the price is the same as in the US.

On the http://www.kawasaki.com website they state the 2009 KLX450R is 7499 dollars MSRP (don't know what that stands for, retailer's price?), which is 5900 of my money (chf). That's the price of a mid-range mountain bike... How is that possible?

 

[KTMphil]

Just spoke to Nae re the KX 450 F he has for sale and it is offered for 220,000 (invoice only - no registration)

With the KLX 250 retailing in Thailand at 150,000 bht, you would expect the KLX 450 to come in around 220,000 -230,000 bht?

 

[MastaMax]

Around 220'000 would be the price if it was similar to US and AU price.

 

[Stokes70]

if its 220,000 then there will never be another DRZ sold in thailand for over 150,000k. anyone want mine?
p.s phil cant compare the wr450 and kx450, the wr's are known for there tame motors and relatively long service intervals, its also a enduro bike whereas a kx450 is a full blown motocrosser, you could supermoto it, but you wouldnt get far past mae krachan without something going bang!!! be good fun though!

 

[LivinLOS]

if its 220,000 then there will never be another DRZ sold in thailand for over 150,000k. anyone want mine?

Why ??? An unregged pure crosser with a 15 hour maintenance schedule or a road registered Dizzy that can cross international borders, tour, as well as do trails.. And a 1000 mile oil change interval if being generous.

2 totally different segments. I think most people would be taking the all rounder with the plate.

EDIT I reread that to assume you mean if kwaker start selling one legally plated KLX at 220,000 not the KX Nae's selling at 220 ??

 

[Stokes70]

I meant a registered klx450, not nae's bike. I aint that stupid dude!!

 

[LivinLOS]

he he.. yeah the re-read picked up on that..

Is a KLX more day to day useable tho.. I thought the KLX was still a really high maintenance race style engine setup.. I mean sure I would love the pop of it, but I have enugh work keeping all my bikes maintained, I dont need another headache.

And that brings me to another gripe.. The Dizzy has been a top seller for Suzi for how long ?? A decade ?? OK maybe a low margin bike for them but still.. I would have thought a newer model, maybe a 450 FI, into the 40s bhp stock, with a 6 speed box, and some updates to the styling.. But keeping its useable service levels and day to day functionality to it. Given the popularity of the model I find it odd that theres been no evolution or updates over such a time span.

 

[MastaMax]

he he.. yeah the re-read picked up on that..

Is a KLX more day to day useable tho.. I thought the KLX was still a really high maintenance race style engine setup.. I mean sure I would love the pop of it, but I have enugh work keeping all my bikes maintained, I dont need another headache.

And that brings me to another gripe.. The Dizzy has been a top seller for Suzi for how long ?? A decade ?? OK maybe a low margin bike for them but still.. I would have thought a newer model, maybe a 450 FI, into the 40s bhp stock, with a 6 speed box, and some updates to the styling.. But keeping its useable service levels and day to day functionality to it. Given the popularity of the model I find it odd that theres been no evolution or updates over such a time span.

You mean like a RMX?

 

[KTMphil]

It looks like LivinLOS has solved why the Kawasaki KLX 450 WON'T be the perfect darling bike for SE Asia -

Reason is service intervals.

The KLX 450 owners manual recommends you change piston & rings every 1500 KM! - Every 30 hours!!

That would be 3 piston and piston ring changes on every long tour through Laos! LOL

Suzuki DRZ 400 will eat up 6 of those tours just with oil changes...... :RE


Some forum stuff re the KLX 450's piston:

From dirtbike forum

http://www.dirtbikeworld.net/forum/show ... hp?t=53488

"I have only clocked 500km's on mine, and going by what the mechanic says at the dealer whether it needs doing or not a piston and rings will be going in mine around the 1500km mark, if you have seen the pistons in these bikes, they called them biscuits, they are very short skirted compared to pistons of old, or in your average trail bike, these are race engines and the piston are a consumable part. "

 

[MastaMax]

Phil that's if you race the bike. For trail riding every 10'000km is enough, check the threads on TT forum:
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-579324.html

1500 is intended if you use the bike for competition...
I guess, for a "normal" use, you cen change piston at 10.000 kms.

...

4000km here with no piston change, you need to change after 1500 RACE KM,
I will do it after 8000-20,000 regular guy KM

The KLX 450 owners manual recommends you change piston & rings every 1500 KM! - Every 30 hours!!

 

[KTMphil]

So where do you draw the line & how do you define the difference between race and trail riding?

SM wheels and high RPM's all the way to Nan would do as much damage as racing wouldn't it?

I've been treating it like a race bike, do i check the piston or not before my next 1,000km trip?

Phil that's if you race the bike. For trail riding every 10'000km is enough, check the threads on TT forum:
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-579324.html

1500 is intended if you use the bike for competition...
I guess, for a "normal" use, you cen change piston at 10.000 kms.

...
[quote:2rdu8h2b]
4000km here with no piston change, you need to change after 1500 RACE KM,
I will do it after 8000-20,000 regular guy KM

The KLX 450 owners manual recommends you change piston & rings every 1500 KM! - Every 30 hours!!

[/quote:2rdu8h2b]

 

[MastaMax]

So where do you draw the line & how do you define the difference between race and trail riding?

No idea My guess is the reliability starts to drop after 1500km... ?

 

[KTMphil]

So where do you draw the line & how do you define the difference between race and trail riding?

No idea My guess is the reliability starts to drop after 1500km... ?

Soooooo ... at 1,500km you start thinking about replacing the piston and rings? doesn't seem a fun way to plan long trips?

 

[LivinLOS]

You mean like a RMX?

Whats the kind of service intervals ?? I dont have any idea on that model but the RMZ was hungry..

Because unless its >1500 km (1000 mile) on oils and engine life thats expected to not need pistons inside of 10k kms as a consumable part it again just isnt hitting the points it needs to for my balance. Right now the one bike that I think closest hits the all rounder spot is probably the WR450.. Works in trail or motard trim.. Decent enough lifespan.. Good bike.. Just seems a bit shocking to me that drz can be hopped up (39mm FCR, big bore, 3x3 mod and pipe) to similar levels of all rounder but on a 10 year old design.. Thats not right... I guess the KTM690 also fits, but at ballpark 3 DRZ's theres a fair cost to it..

Or you can just have different tools for different tasks.. throw a second dirt cheap old 2 stroke into the mix for the local trail stuff.. Find a late model CRM250AR or KDX250 / 200 for playing about close to home.

Its ALWAYS compromise.. I mean none of those bikes are great on longer haul tour.. An old DR650 is rock solid tough and better pull, or a XT660.. But to find one bike to do it all, from a light woods trial to riding here to cambo.. Just a hard spec to fill. You cant get a one size fits all really, you want to race off road its not going to be the greatest tourer.

 

[LivinLOS]

In fact the more 'specialized' all these bikes become, the harder it is to get a balance.. Older bikes didnt suffer that so much.. Or is that just rose tinted glasses and lower expectations.

Think back the old XR's, which could be a bulletproof bike.. They used to hunt along when tuned up for enduro type racing (check dust to glory, they were not hanging about).. Even like a late 90's KLX650 big bruiser of a trailie but if your after one size fits all, you could ride that day to day.. Tour to Cambo and still (heavily) handle easy single track. Racking my brain I dont think I have ever seen on here.

Heavy, but I'd still ride it.

 

[bill]

You mean like a RMX?

Whats the kind of service intervals ?? I dont have any idea on that model but the RMZ was hungry..

Because unless its >1500 km (1000 mile) on oils and engine life thats expected to not need pistons inside of 10k kms as a consumable part it again just isnt hitting the points it needs to for my balance. Right now the one bike that I think closest hits the all rounder spot is probably the WR450.. Works in trail or motard trim.. Decent enough lifespan.. Good bike.. Just seems a bit shocking to me that drz can be hopped up (39mm FCR, big bore, 3x3 mod and pipe) to similar levels of all rounder but on a 10 year old design.. Thats not right... I guess the KTM690 also fits, but at ballpark 3 DRZ's theres a fair cost to it..

Or you can just have different tools for different tasks.. throw a second dirt cheap old 2 stroke into the mix for the local trail stuff.. Find a late model CRM250AR or KDX250 / 200 for playing about close to home.

Its ALWAYS compromise.. I mean none of those bikes are great on longer haul tour.. An old DR650 is rock solid tough and better pull, or a XT660.. But to find one bike to do it all, from a light woods trial to riding here to cambo.. Just a hard spec to fill. You cant get a one size fits all really, you want to race off road its not going to be the greatest tourer.

Before the DRZ400's I had a 1995 XR250 for 55000 trouble free kilometers. Clutch was just starting to go at 55k but rings/valves still original.
Elect start/6 speed/115-120kg were the good points. Easy to throw around compared to the DRZ400.
Main problem was it was gutless.
Always wondered how they'd go with 280cc big/bore, pumper carb and exhaust mods..
Anyone tried it ?
Obviously need to find a low km one if beefing up the topend.

 

[johnnysneds]

Interesting subject and one that I have been thinking about alot with regards to my WR.
To date I have covered approx. 4,500 Km, 2/3 of that has been thrashing it on the tarmac. I have a Wiseco top end kit on standby which cost just over $300. When do I carry this out? I don't know really but it's something I'm monitoring closely and carry out as much preventive maintenance as I can. Smoke from the exhaust, hard to start, loss of oil, drop in performance, ease of kickstart operation are signs that a top end rebuild may be required. I have ordered a compression tester which is still to arrive so I will have an accurate indication of wear. I'm not going to do it just because the manual says so, every bike/rider combination is going to be different. I change my oil after every ride no matter how short it has been, it only takes 10 minutes. The moose ss filter is cleaned every 3 oil changes as is the air filter. So far there have been no obvious indications that things are wearing.
My opinion is the key to top end service longevity is oil changes. 200km after an oil change and my oil is black and on the thin side. The Rekluse clutch doesn't help either.
I make sure I check the oil that comes out from the filter when it gets cleaned. The first few cleans I noticed a lot of metallic particles that had been caught! I'm hoping this is because the motor was new a running in. Lately the oil from the filter has been good.
These bikes take a lot of abuse, well mines does anyway, and it's a job and a half keeping them conditioned. If I can get to 10K I'll be happy. As weird as it seems I'm actually looking forward to rebuilding the top end!!!! :bash

 

[KTMphil]

I'm now seriously considering buying a new Yamaha WR 250F from the USA

USA list price $6,870 (205,000 Thai Bht). say USD$ 1,000 to get it to Thailand, 12,000 bht 3% excise tax and you have a new reliable superlight powerbomb for trail riding

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2011/ ... index.html




Wet weight 116KG - a couple of quick mods and a slip on exhaust and you have an easy 35HP is what attracts me

Complete specs below

Model: Yamaha WR250F
Year: 2011
Category: Enduro / offroad
Rating: 65 out of 100. Show full rating and compare with other bikes
Price as new (MSRP): US$ 6850. Euro 8350. Prices depend on country, taxes, accessories, etc.
Engine and transmission
Displacement: 250.00 ccm (15.26 cubic inches)
Engine type: Single cylinder, four-stroke
Engine details: Five titanium valves
Compression: 12.5:1
Bore x stroke: 77.0 x 53.6 mm (3.0 x 2.1 inches)
Fuel system: Carburettor. Keihin FCR 37
Fuel control: DOHC
Ignition: CDI
Cooling system: Liquid
Gearbox: 5-speed
Transmission type,
final drive: Chain
Chassis, suspension, brakes and wheels
Frame type: Aluminum
Front suspension: Inverted fork
Front suspension travel: 300 mm (11.8 inches)
Rear suspension: Single shock
Rear suspension travel: 310 mm (12.2 inches)
Front tyre dimensions: 80/100-M21
Rear tyre dimensions: 100/100-M18
Front brakes: Single disc
Front brakes diameter: 250 mm (9.8 inches)
Rear brakes: Single disc
Rear brakes diameter: 245 mm (9.6 inches)
Physical measures and capacities
Weight incl. oil, gas, etc: 116.1 kg (256.0 pounds)
Seat height: 980 mm (38.6 inches) If adjustable, lowest setting.
Overall height: 1,298 mm (51.1 inches)
Overall length: 2,164 mm (85.2 inches)
Overall width: 826 mm (32.5 inches)
Ground clearance: 366 mm (14.4 inches)
Wheelbase: 1,481 mm (58.3 inches)
Fuel capacity: 7.95 litres (2.10 gallons)
Other specifications
Starter: Electric
Factory warranty: 30 Day (Limited Factory Warranty)
Color options: Blue/white

 

[KTMphil]

John - It's been a fascinating test case for us all watching exactly what your talking about & proving that some of these race bikes are well engineered enough to use as touring bike's.

The maintenance schedule that your bike will have i would have thought would be acceptable by anyone especially with the awesome performance that it gives.

What do you think the HP at the rear wheel is after the mods you have done? 50 HP?

Interesting subject and one that I have been thinking about alot with regards to my WR.
To date I have covered approx. 4,500 Km, 2/3 of that has been thrashing it on the tarmac. I have a Wiseco top end kit on standby which cost just over $300. When do I carry this out? I don't know really but it's something I'm monitoring closely and carry out as much preventive maintenance as I can. Smoke from the exhaust, hard to start, loss of oil, drop in performance, ease of kickstart operation are signs that a top end rebuild may be required. I have ordered a compression tester which is still to arrive so I will have an accurate indication of wear. I'm not going to do it just because the manual says so, every bike/rider combination is going to be different. I change my oil after every ride no matter how short it has been, it only takes 10 minutes. The moose ss filter is cleaned every 3 oil changes as is the air filter. So far there have been no obvious indications that things are wearing.
My opinion is the key to top end service longevity is oil changes. 200km after an oil change and my oil is black and on the thin side. The Rekluse clutch doesn't help either.
I make sure I check the oil that comes out from the filter when it gets cleaned. The first few cleans I noticed a lot of metallic particles that had been caught! I'm hoping this is because the motor was new a running in. Lately the oil from the filter has been good.
These bikes take a lot of abuse, well mines does anyway, and it's a job and a half keeping them conditioned. If I can get to 10K I'll be happy. As weird as it seems I'm actually looking forward to rebuilding the top end!!!! :bash

 

[bill]

I'm now seriously considering buying a new Yamaha WR 250F from the USA

USA list price $6,870 (205,000 Thai Bht). say USD$ 1,000 to get it to Thailand, 12,000 bht 3% excise tax and you have a new reliable superlight powerbomb for trail riding

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2011/ ... index.html

[attachment=0:qk0wlykk]wr250 new price.jpg[/attachment:qk0wlykk]


Wet weight 116KG - a couple of quick mods and a slip on exhaust and you have an easy 35HP is what attracts me

Phil

What about importing a 2011 KTM 450 or 530 EXC ?

They've just been replaced with the 2012 EXC350 and 500.
2012 models have FI whereas 2011 are still carbed.

2011 prices might be reduced to clear for the FI 2012 models ?

Here's an example of 2011 450 EXC for $7k (not much more than the WR250F)

http://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2011 ... C-98021894

TECHNICAL DETAILS KTM 450 EXC
Engine
Engine single cylinder, 4-stroke
Displacement 449.39cc
Bore/Stroke 95/63.4mm
Compression Ratio 11.9:1
Starter kick starter and electric starter/4 Ah
Transmission 6-speed wide-ratio
Carburetor Keihin FCR MX 39
Exhaust Control Two Exhaust Valves
Engine Lubrication Method pressure lubrication with 2 Eaton pumps
Engine Lubrication 0.60 l Motorex Power Synt 4T 10W50
Transmission lubrication 0.90 l Motorex Power Synt 4T 10W50
Primary ratio 33:76
Drive Chain 520 X-ring chain 5/8 x 1/4"
Cooling liquid cooled
Clutch wet multi-disc clutch, operated hydraulically
Ignition Kokusan digital

Chassis
Frame chromoly central tube frame
Subframe aluminum, removable
Handlebar tapered Magura, aluminum, Ø 28mm
Front suspension WP Suspension-USD 48mm
Rear suspension WP-PDS 5018 DCC shock absorber
Suspension travel front/rear 300/335mm / 11.8/13.2"
Front Brake 260mm/10.2" disc, Brembo double piston
Rear brake 220mm/8.6" disc, Brembo single piston
Front / rear rims 1.60 x 21" / 2.15 x 18" Excel
Front / rear tires 90/90-21" / 140/80-18"
Final Drive 15:45
Main silencer aluminum w/USFS spark arrestor
Steering head angle 26.5°
Wheelbase 1475mm±10mm/58.1" ±.4"
Ground clearance (unloaded) 380mm/14.96"
Seat height 985mm/38.8"
Fuel Capacity approx. 9.2 liters/2.43 U.S. gallons
Total weight (dry) approx. 114.8 kgs/253.1 lbs

http://www.ktm.com/us/enduro/450-exc-us ... tails.html

 

[KTMphil]

Bill - there are so many WR250's in Thailand, with these race orientated bike's needing some regular servicing and maintenance, I think it's prudent to get something that mechanics are familiar with and they will be able to source parts quickly and cheaply. I could see the KTM's becoming a nightmare with Thai mechanics, they all know and have worked on Yamaha WR250's, less chance of problems for a very similar bike.

I'm now seriously considering buying a new Yamaha WR 250F from the USA

USA list price $6,870 (205,000 Thai Bht). say USD$ 1,000 to get it to Thailand, 12,000 bht 3% excise tax and you have a new reliable superlight powerbomb for trail riding

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2011/ ... index.html

[attachment=0:3g398vti]wr250 new price.jpg[/attachment:3g398vti]


Wet weight 116KG - a couple of quick mods and a slip on exhaust and you have an easy 35HP is what attracts me

Phil

What about importing a 2011 KTM 450 or 530 EXC ?

They've just been replaced with the 2012 EXC350 and 500.
2012 models have FI whereas 2011 are still carbed.

2011 prices might be reduced to clear for the FI 2012 models ?

Here's an example of 2011 450 EXC for $7k (not much more than the WR250F)

http://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2011 ... C-98021894

TECHNICAL DETAILS KTM 450 EXC
Engine
Engine single cylinder, 4-stroke
Displacement 449.39cc
Bore/Stroke 95/63.4mm
Compression Ratio 11.9:1
Starter kick starter and electric starter/4 Ah
Transmission 6-speed wide-ratio
Carburetor Keihin FCR MX 39
Exhaust Control Two Exhaust Valves
Engine Lubrication Method pressure lubrication with 2 Eaton pumps
Engine Lubrication 0.60 l Motorex Power Synt 4T 10W50
Transmission lubrication 0.90 l Motorex Power Synt 4T 10W50
Primary ratio 33:76
Drive Chain 520 X-ring chain 5/8 x 1/4"
Cooling liquid cooled
Clutch wet multi-disc clutch, operated hydraulically
Ignition Kokusan digital

Chassis
Frame chromoly central tube frame
Subframe aluminum, removable
Handlebar tapered Magura, aluminum, Ø 28mm
Front suspension WP Suspension-USD 48mm
Rear suspension WP-PDS 5018 DCC shock absorber
Suspension travel front/rear 300/335mm / 11.8/13.2"
Front Brake 260mm/10.2" disc, Brembo double piston
Rear brake 220mm/8.6" disc, Brembo single piston
Front / rear rims 1.60 x 21" / 2.15 x 18" Excel
Front / rear tires 90/90-21" / 140/80-18"
Final Drive 15:45
Main silencer aluminum w/USFS spark arrestor
Steering head angle 26.5°
Wheelbase 1475mm±10mm/58.1" ±.4"
Ground clearance (unloaded) 380mm/14.96"
Seat height 985mm/38.8"
Fuel Capacity approx. 9.2 liters/2.43 U.S. gallons
Total weight (dry) approx. 114.8 kgs/253.1 lbs

http://www.ktm.com/us/enduro/450-exc-us ... tails.html

 

[bill]

Bill - there are so many WR250's in Thailand, with these race orientated bike's needing some regular servicing and maintenance, I think it's prudent to get something that mechanics are familiar with and they will be able to source parts quickly and cheaply. I could see the KTM's becoming a nightmare with Thai mechanics, they all know and have worked on Yamaha WR250's, less chance of problems for a very similar bike.

Phil
Just been reading up on the WR250F. Looks a like a great choice for technical trails/short trips. I'm looking for something along those lines.
Would be interested to know of your progress in getting one here, presumably on Temp import ?

 

[KTMphil]

Bill - there are so many WR250's in Thailand, with these race orientated bike's needing some regular servicing and maintenance, I think it's prudent to get something that mechanics are familiar with and they will be able to source parts quickly and cheaply. I could see the KTM's becoming a nightmare with Thai mechanics, they all know and have worked on Yamaha WR250's, less chance of problems for a very similar bike.

Phil
Just been reading up on the WR250F. Looks a like a great choice for technical trails/short trips. I'm looking for something along those lines.
Would be interested to know of your progress in getting one here, presumably on Temp import ?

I think the Thai guys have ways of assembling "new" parts Bill, looking into that currently.

 

[Brian66]

I have had a few of these modern high compression motors over the past 4 years and the main issue is ring wear.
The pistons are slipper type and have no skirts. Compression ratios are over 12.1 now days so any wear in the rings will quickly reduce the cylinder pressure and rob the bike of the great power they make.

So if you are going to own one of these bikes you need to be prepared to do two things to keep the cylinder pressure up. Change the oil as many times as possible and do regular, “leak down tests” of the cylinder pressure.

This will show any loss in cylinder pressure and you should change the rings before the cylinder bore is damaged by “washing” which occurs when blow by of high pressure gas mixed with fuel and oil residue cuts the cylinder bore material and creates an ever increasing gap.

It is very simple to change rings on a single cylinder bike and I always keep a couple of spare sets on the shelf. Once I see about a 10% to 15% drop in cylinder pressure when doing a leak down test I change the rings.

I have recently sold my YZ 250, YZ450, CRF450X and all were used aggressively but running almost full compression when sold. I put this down to oil condition when riding the bike and changing that oil as much as possible.

I still have a WR450 and a CRF450R, both motors are running as new. I have just ordered a new CRF450X and CRF250X. The endure bikes run a slightly lower compression ratio to the R model bikes so last longer.

None of these bikes are designed to run near the maximum RPM for extended periods of time. The endure bikes have taller gearing therefore rev lower at relative speeds which in turn preserves piston and ring life.

The crankshaft, big end and little end bearings are as durable as any other high performance bike. Only the cylinder, piston, rings, valve gear and cams are subject to wear due to the high revving nature of the bikes.

But if you chose this type of bike you should be prepared to maintain it if the performance it offers was your main reason to purchase the bike in the first place.

 

[LivinLOS]

I'm now seriously considering buying a new Yamaha WR 250F from the USA

USA list price $6,870 (205,000 Thai Bht). say USD$ 1,000 to get it to Thailand, 12,000 bht 3% excise tax and you have a new reliable superlight powerbomb for trail riding

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2011/ ... index.html

[attachment=0:n78rx0jz]wr250 new price.jpg[/attachment:n78rx0jz]

but here's my thoughts.. That will end up north of 250k.. Or you hunt out a clean condition smoker.. lek recently had a crm250ar for iirc 65k.. Those put out low to mid 40s hp.. Are light.. Still have parts online.. And need much less care in piston rebuilds and even if they do are much simpler to do..

For free revving power to weight small woodsers I just think smokers do it better than the high performance 4 strokes unless you have a mechanic crew and parts on tap. I just grabbed wr200 sure i would like more power, sure I am a bit nervous on parts supply and I admit it's a bit of Thai modified old nail.. But at 50 k with a green book I can just crash it and laugh. That's a big appeal to me..

 

[KTMphil]

Sef what your saying does make a lot of sense, but its an older bike which inherently means problems somewhere. New little thoroughbred bursting with power would be great and they have good resale values.

I'm now seriously considering buying a new Yamaha WR 250F from the USA

USA list price $6,870 (205,000 Thai Bht). say USD$ 1,000 to get it to Thailand, 12,000 bht 3% excise tax and you have a new reliable superlight powerbomb for trail riding

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2011/ ... index.html

[attachment=0:k7f3ujmn]wr250 new price.jpg[/attachment:k7f3ujmn]

but here's my thoughts.. That will end up north of 250k.. Or you hunt out a clean condition smoker.. lek recently had a crm250ar for iirc 65k.. Those put out low to mid 40s hp.. Are light.. Still have parts online.. And need much less care in piston rebuilds and even if they do are much simpler to do..

For free revving power to weight small woodsers I just think smokers do it better than the high performance 4 strokes unless you have a mechanic crew and parts on tap. I just grabbed wr200 sure i would like more power, sure I am a bit nervous on parts supply and I admit it's a bit of Thai modified old nail.. But at 50 k with a green book I can just crash it and laugh. That's a big appeal to me..

 

[bill]

If we take a new WR250F as an example, does anyone know of a dealer in the USA that would sell to a non American International customer.
Ideally, they'd do the pre delivery check, then put the bike back in its original shipping crate, ready for a freight forwarder to pickup.
Also, register and plate it in my name so I can bring it in on Temp import. All paperwork done by fax/email/express mail.

I arranged this with an Australian dealer once, they even agreed to drop the crate off at the shippers depot. That was when the AUD was way down. Not currently viable with high AUD, but US prices looking cheap now.

 

[KTMphil]

Bill

I'm working on this myself now v's the cost of the Thai shipping container from the USA method.

i'll let you know what i find out. i'm even looking at shipping frame, engine & wheels in 3 boxes to my USA address then shipping them here.

If we take a new WR250F as an example, does anyone know of a dealer in the USA that would sell to a non American International customer.
Ideally, they'd do the pre delivery check, then put the bike back in its original shipping crate, ready for a freight forwarder to pickup.
Also, register and plate it in my name so I can bring it in on Temp import. All paperwork done by fax/email/express mail.

I arranged this with an Australian dealer once, they even agreed to drop the crate off at the shippers depot. That was when the AUD was way down. Not currently viable with high AUD, but US prices looking cheap now.

 

[LivinLOS]

Sef what your saying does make a lot of sense, but its an older bike which inherently means problems somewhere. New little thoroughbred bursting with power would be great and they have good resale values.

ha ha.. your selling it to yourself well !!

The new bike thing is appealing.. No doubt.. I just like an entire bike costing less than an engine rebuild..

 

[Steve Canyon]

Gentlemen are these beasts really the ideal sort of bike for riding those hard remote trails?

All that fettling and having to keep an eye on the razor edge technology...

I would have thought something less stressed and with larger service intervals would be better suited?.

The highly tuned motors rarely give give you much notice before they let go, and when they do it's normally spectacular.

Would you really leave on a big trip wondering if you piston going to give up?

Dangerous experiments...

:RO :RO

 

[Brian66]

I think you have to put into the context of what the rider is seeking out of the bike. The relatively high-powered 4 stroke endures up to the 450cc level have highly tuned engines to create that power surge. The people who buy these bikes want to feel that explosive power.
In addition, it is a fallacy that the 250 and 450 singles will “let go” In fact, they rarely throw a rod or seize a piston or have engine component failures. Thousands of these bikes are out there every day being thrashed silly and the motors are rock solid.
Common sense dictates that If you hold any engine of any size or tuning level at or near to the maximum RPM for an extended length of time, something will give.
The main issue with these singles is to maintain the high power output. The engine tolerances are so fine that wear will quickly make the bike feel slow. The bike will be harder to start due to a lack of compression and just perform poorly.
So to fix that, in goes a new piston and rings and back comes that huge power surge. A lot of people do not expect to have to do that to a bike for 10 years. I am quite happy to do it every 10 weeks.
If you are not into explosive short distance acceleration, wheeling, powers slides, roosting your mates behind then you should ride a sedate 250 or a heavy weight 500cc to 1000cc dual purpose bike.
The buzz from these high-powered singles is what does it for most guys who buy them.
I had a Suzuki 400 and the power was so under whelming it felt like I was riding a 250 from eighties.
I once purchased a brand new XR 250 on a Saturday. Took it to the bush, tried to enjoy it but it was so gutless I parked it and cleaned it and I returned the bike to the dealer on the Monday and traded it in on a new XR650. Now that was a great bike in its day and had Grunt!!
The WR’s and the CRF x’s all race in long distance desert races that take up to a week. These bikes are thrashed from dawn to dusk and never fail in the engine. If I were planning a ride through trails with a bunch of mates for a few days, I would not hesitate to take my CRF450X. On rides like this, the throttle rarely gets past 50% and most of the time the RPM is at the lower end of the scale. The WR or CRF, and I believe, as I have never owned or ridden one, an equivalent Kawasaki would perform flawlessly on long distance off road touring. It would be a different story on the road transport sections though.
I wouldn’t recommend holding the throttle around 90% open for even 10 minutes on boring straight stretches of sealed roads. I would be turning off the road at the first sign of a dirt track.

 

[bill]

My interest in a lightweight WR/CRF/EXC type bike is for local trails/single track.

I would use my DRZ400 for longer dualsport rides that include lots of blacktop.

I recently replaced the crankshaft and main bearings in my DRZ, plus added big bore and hotcams. All pretty straight forward nut and bolt work.

One thing I cant do myself is recut the valve seats. Fortunately the valves were still ok.
A valve job (recut seats, new OEM valves/springs/seals/collars/labor) costs $300 in the US plus shipping so close to $400 all up.

Is anyone in Thailand setup and experienced to recut valve seats on the WR/CRF/DR's ?

 

[KTMphil]

Midnight mapper says Fuark in Vientiane, Laos does an awesome job of 3 angle valve re-cuts and he's great value

My interest in a lightweight WR/CRF/EXC type bike is for local trails/single track.

I would use my DRZ400 for longer dualsport rides that include lots of blacktop.

I recently replaced the crankshaft and main bearings in my DRZ, plus added big bore and hotcams. All pretty straight forward nut and bolt work.

One thing I cant do myself is recut the valve seats. Fortunately the valves were still ok.
A valve job (recut seats, new OEM valves/springs/seals/collars/labor) costs $300 in the US plus shipping so close to $400 all up.

Is anyone in Thailand setup and experienced to recut valve seats on the WR/CRF/DR's ?