Rossi to ditch Ducati after one year????

[Stokes70]

Found this on another website, I say move, the duke is a stinker of a bike....

Valentino Rossi has asked for a Gresini Honda says Marco Melandri
Posted: Thursday 04 August 2011 by Toni M.
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The rumors that the once considered fairy tale marriage between Valentino Rossi and Ducati is heading towards an annulment are growing stronger; especially considering all his struggles in trying to tame the GP11 and 11.1 and despite the Italian saying “Will I stay with Ducati in 2012? I said I think so, meaning that I reckon that staying here is the logical choice.”

The latest gossip was that Rossi was thinking returning to the Honda fold or run his own MotoGP team with the Japanese manufacturer’s bike, but that was more or less pooh-poohed away, but now the soon-to-be-out of a job Marco Melandri has just lent some credibility to that rumor.

“I know that Valentino Rossi has contacted Gresini for a Honda in 2012: all this confirms what I’ve been saying for some time, that the marriage between the” Doctor “and Ducati have the months counted, said Melandri, who had his own personal stormy relationship with Ducati, that included sessions on a psychologist’s couch.

Whether this is just some summer gossip to fill websites remains to be seen, but that second year option in Rossi’s contract may allow him bow out and count his blessings, and try to forget a nightmare season where for the first time since 1996, he hasn’t had a win to add to his legendary statistics.

Source | theracingtribune.it

 

[KTMphil]

So where do you think he'd go next Sarge if true?

 

[barrygrussell]

This has been running around for a couple of weeks. Most likely alternative is said to be a return to Yamaha, but they effectively made JLo #1 rider a year before Rossi left and are unlikely to ditch Spies or get another. Both Rossi and Hayden are said to be deeply pissed with Ducati by insiders, so Melandri's story is probably the most plausible.

Could we be in the autumn of The Doctor's illustrious career? If he does cut loose from Ducati, that will surely be the last we see of him as a factory rider. Stoner's bloody minded ability to wring wins out of the Ducati has put a big dent in the legend, so the best scenario is that we see Rossi and Burgess come through with a technical breakthrough and rescue the current dire situation.

 

[Stokes70]

Mmmm, personally I'd love to see him start his own team, with Marco Simoncelli and Andrea Iannone as the riders. Possibly with support from Honda or Yamaha( they owe him big time). Oh how the sparks would fly..... :F

I would not mind if he retired personally, he has done enough in his career to silence any doubters or critics. 9 world championships doesnt really leave much to argue against...
Agreed Stoner could extract wins from the ducati that no-one else could, but that says more about his particular riding style and mental state than True Riding ability and finesse, Im sure a 23 year old Rossi, with everything to prove and " only" 1 world championship to his name would be another story on the bologna bullet...
Alas we will never know!

I also read that Ducati are under pressure from some of their riders to switch to an aluminium frame........

Wednesday, August 3, 2011Rossi Doubt it, but Capirossi Sure of Ducati New Aluminum Frame
Ducati results until halfway through the 2011 season certainly did not make the Italian manufacturer satisfied. But they are still far from giving up. Latest news, Ducati will switch to replace the carbon fiber frame to aluminum frame. Loris Capirossi believes the change could minimize the current problem of Ducati, while Valentino Rossi is more cautious response to these changes.


"In my opinion Ducati has been working to create a different motor. We have asked Filippo (Preziosi) makes a real chassis on the bike. The problem with the Ducati is the rigidity (stiffness). You do not make the stiffness with the swing arm and front-end, "said Capirossi as reported by MCN.


"The most important part is the middle and the engine (where) you can not change the stiffness. You can work a little with (the) front and rear, but you can not do anything with the machine. There is no flex in the middle of the bike, "said Loris.


When asked specifically whether the Ducati reflect back on an aluminum frame, Capirossi, who reportedly will announce to retire in series Brno-replied: "Of course thinking about the Ducati and Valentino gave Ducati the pressure really hard and this is why we've already seen the motor 2012. "


Ducati has been using carbon fiber frames since 2009 after leaving the traditional tubular steel frame that has been used since entering MotoGP in 2003. But Capirossi said the concept is now not working due to lack of front-end feeling.


"You do not feel anything. You do not feel the tires and you do not feel the ground. I do not know what happened, I had no feeling whatsoever and I do not know where the limit. You try and think the feeling is not too bad but when you try a little more you lose the front. This is the biggest problem. "


"When you have a problem with the back then you can control and shift but with (the) front you can not do anything."


Other with Rossi opinion. When asked whether the change in the frame will actually be able to overcome the problem of front-end on the Ducati motor, Rossi would not give a straight answer.


"Really I do not know because I am a racer and I do not have the answer. I hope the someone in Ducati has an answer, "Rossi said.


"One is enough and we hope this is true," continued the Doctor.


Rossi doubts for urgent technical director Filippo Preziosi leaving the carbon fiber frame is based on the fact that carbon fiber frames that exist now are not the same as those used by Capirossi.

 

[barrygrussell]

Interesting comments by Capirossi and no need to de-code, as you do with Valentino! Plus he's one of only three (I think) riders to win MotoGP races on a Ducati (Troy Bayliss's amazing wild card win being the other).

Bottom line is that I think Rossi raised the bar so far as riding is concerned in a similar way to Kenny Roberts, so the next wave of top riders had no choice but to reach the new standard. Earlier this year, when he was asked to compare the switch to Ducati with the Honda -Yamaha move Rossi said the gap was about the same between the machines, but the level of the other riders was much higher. Kind of says it all, really.

Sure Honda and Yamaha owe him, but I doubt whether they will pay up. Rossi had a bad relationship with Honda and Yamaha are scaling back their investment in racing. I was talking to a top racer in UK yesterday who has just turned down a ride with Swan Yamaha because he felt the pull-back from WSBK would knock back all the way through their racing operations.

It would be great to see those mavericks together in a new team and it would be easy for them to attract sponsorship, but I couldn't see them doing any better than grabbing a few podiums without the full factory support you need to win at that level.

 

[Stokes70]

What do Yamaha think they are doing??!! If your buddies instincts are right that is extremely worrying. On what basis are they going to be marketing the R1 from now on?? hardly looks good without anyone riding it in WSB.
Honda must be loving it.

 

[Brian66]

I remember when I raced at the peak of my ability in a remote championship that did not attract anyone but local riders and that the same 8 riders dominated for about 5 years but faded over the later couple of years and the new generation replaced them
During that 8 years the same riders won or came 2nd ,3rd or 4th. I was of that buch so i know first hand how it panned out.
Most of changes of who won were at the beginning of the new season on new bikes, the remaining rider always filled the positions back to maybe 10th. What was noticeable was the fact that whoever of those riders fronted with a new model bike or some trick parts like suspension, they were immediately fast. The rest of us were going faster than the previous year but not as fast as the guys with trick parts on their bikes. So the same riders changed the finishing positions during those years due to bike advancement and we all caught up to some extent as the season progressed and we copied the trick gear. It was not some sudden surge in Skill that rotated the winners and positions.

The same thing is happening now in MotoGP.

I do not think that Stoner is suddenly a 25 second better rider than he was last year.
I don't believe Rossi has peaked and is on the way down.

I say 25 seconds because I noted the times at Lemans this year compared to last year. Stoner won this year in a time that was 25 seconds faster than the winning time by Lorenzo last year. That is a huge amount. Almost one second per lap better for 28 laps.

Last year Stoner fell off so we will never know his possible race time. However, his best lap time of last year on a Ducati was 1.204 seconds slower than Rossi’s time this year on a Ducati.
Rossi race time this year was 16 seconds quicker than he did last year on the Yamaha. Rossi’s fastest lap this year was .2 faster than Lorenzo’s fastest lap last year.

Therefore, Rossi is not failing on the Ducati. The Ducati is failing Rossi.

I have no doubt that if Rossi was riding either stoners or Pedrosa’ s bike this year he would be battling at the front with the top 5.

The other bikes have improved so much the Ducati is not in the race any more.

Look at the times below of the five top riders if you discount Simoncelli and Spies.
Dani Pedrosa 1.34.632. 2010 fastest lap Dani Pedrosa 1.33.617. 2011 fastest lap about 2 seconds faster

Casey Stoner 1.35.577. 2010 fastest lap Casey Stoner 1.33.671 2011. fastest lap About 2 seconds faster

Lorenzo 1.34.545 2010 fastest lap Lorenzo 1.34.269 2011 fastest lap. About .3 faster

Rossi 1.34.586 2010. fastest lap Rossi 1.34.273. 2011 fastest lap. About .3 faster

Dovizioso 1.34.756. 2010 fastest lap Dovizioso 1.34.304. 2011 fastest lap. About .4 faster.

Those times show you that Stoner and Pedrosa are the big improvers but it you look at Rossi’s times he is riding that Ducati faster than Stoner was last year in almost every race bar the last two.

I read in the financial papers that Yamaha has big, big, financial problems now after the Japanese earthquake problems. The worldwide sales figures for both their R1 and R6 have dropped dramatically.
They are pulling out of WSB solely due to financial reasons and from what I read; they may be forced out of MotoGP in the not too distant future if the world economies do not improve.

 

[barrygrussell]

Great observations and analysis, Brian. Nobody believes that Rossi has gone off the boil as a rider and the RC211V has reached the peak of its development. Yamaha is working hard to keep up and doing a good job thanks largely to the class and world champion's attitude of Lorenzo while Ducati and Suzuki started behind and continue to slip back.

It is worrying indeed about Yamaha, as the only motorcycle manufacturer capable of rivalling the market penetration of Honda. It is a fantastic company and the first choice of so many racers as well as road riders, but its achievements will diminish without serious competition. The rest of the industry will be left fighting for niches left by Honda. Depressing prospect.

 

[Brian66]

Rossi gave the press his usual barbed and humorous remarks at a press conference at the Brno circuit about the change of bike manufacturer rumours for next season.
He said he just heard by way of the media that he had a new manager, Namely, Melandri and that he was going to race a Honda in 2012. He said he had a 2-year contract with Ducati and would stay with Ducati if that were ok with Marco.

I reckon Rossi is keeping things close to his chest and he is renowned for manipulating the media. I would bet he has an OUT clause in his contract with Ducati based on results.

I would bet he would jump ship if the next years Ducati 1000, if they use a 1000 cc bike behaves the same way as the Ducati 800 this year.

Yesterday, he improved his times in qualifying to within .75 of a second from the fastest, rather than the usual 2 odd seconds. Something is working better on the bike to do that time.

Having said that, it was just a one off lap, the bulk of his laps were around the 1.5 second slower.

At this circuit he is lapping about .4 of a second faster on the Ducati this year than Stoner did last year on the Ducati.
I will compare the times in tomorrow race between Rossi’s times this year and Stoners times last year.

 

[Steve Canyon]

At this circuit he is lapping about .4 of a second faster on the Ducati this year than Stoner did last year on the Ducati

interesting.....hope he goes well today... 8-)

 

[Steve Canyon]

Looks like Ducati have found a fix.....

Should liven things up a bit... :RO

 

[Brian66]

I do not think Ductai have found a fix. An improvement in terms of results, yes. But it Pedrosa and Buatista didnt fall off Rossi would have finished 8th and more than the 12.5 seconds he was behind Stoner.

Rossi seems to be flogging a . He rode 74 laps in the Monday test on the 800cc bike while Yamaha and Honda tested their 1000cc bikes.
Rossi best time of 1’58.266 on the Monday test was .422 seconds slower than the best lap he did in Sundays race.
Stoner on the 1000cc bike did a 1.56.168 which was slightly faster than Dani Pedrosa did in the first free practice at Brno, (1.56.328) on the 800cc.
I expect the 1000cc bikes to improve immensely once they get the tyres and handling in sync with the increased torque and power.
Lorenzo best on the 1000cc was 1’56.253 compare to his 800cc qualifying of 1.56.704
Interestingly, was that Rossi again lapped faster on the Ducati this year at Brno than Stoner did last year on the Ducati. And he was almost a half a second faster on his best lap of the race on the Ducati than he was on the Yamaha last year.

Stoner improved by almost a second from the Ducati to the Honda at Brno

Simoncelli shows the improvement of the Honda by his faster time of more than a second from his time in 2010 compared to 2011


Brno race time’s 2010 Brno 2011 race time’s 2011
Stoner (Ducati) 1.58.121 (Honda) 1.57.191
Rossi (Yamaha) 1.58.240 (Ducati) 1.57.844
Pedrosa 1.57.712 1.57.518
Lorenzo 1.57.524 1.57.636
Dovizioso 1.58.045 1.57.468
Simoncelli 1.58.630 1.57.497

 

[barrygrussell]

I agree with Brian and don't think Ducati are closing the development gap. As an aside, I found the Brno test times for yesterday (Monday) and for the corresponding 990 test in 2006, which makes interesting reading for geeks like us...

2011 Brno MotoGP test - conditions dry

1 Casey Stoner Repsol Honda Team 1:56.168 - - 57 (1000cc)
2 Jorge Lorenzo Yamaha Factory Racing 1:56.253 +0.085 +0.085 28 (1000cc)
3 Ben Spies Yamaha Factory Racing 1:56.306 +0.046 +0.053 24 (1000cc)
4 Jorge Lorenzo Yamaha Factory Racing 1:56.727 +0.421 +0.474 58 (800cc)
5 Ben Spies Yamaha Factory Racing 1:57.184 +0.457 +0.931 15 (800cc)
6 Dani Pedrosa Repsol Honda Team 1:57.264 +0.080 +1.096 37
7 Nicky Hayden Ducati Team 1:57.533 +0.269 +1.365 78
8 Cal Crutchlow Monster Yamaha Tech 3 1:57.591 +0.058 +1.423 74
9 Toni Elias LCR Honda MotoGP 1:57.903 +0.312 +1.735 56
10 Valentino Rossi Ducati Team 1:58.266 +0.363 +2.098 74
11 Loris Capirossi Pramac Racing Team 1:58.387 +0.121 +2.219 66
12 Colin Edwards Monster Yamaha Tech 3 1:58.492 +0.105 +2.324 44
13 Mika Kallio Marc Vds Racing Team 2:00.144 +1.652 +3.976 81

2006 Brno qualifying times - conditions dry

1 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Camel Yamaha Team Yamaha 300.8 1'56.191
2 65 Loris CAPIROSSI ITA Ducati Marlboro Team Ducati 304.0 1'56.441 0.250 / 0.250
3 10 Kenny ROBERTS JR USA Team Roberts KR211V 300.4 1'56.603 0.412 / 0.162
4 69 Nicky HAYDEN USA Repsol Honda Team Honda 302.5 1'56.694 0.503 / 0.091
5 56 Shinya NAKANO JPN Kawasaki Racing Team Kawasaki 300.4 1'56.770 0.579 / 0.076
6 24 Toni ELIAS SPA Fortuna Honda Honda 300.2 1'56.875 0.684 / 0.105
7 21 John HOPKINS USA Rizla Suzuki MotoGP Suzuki 299.6 1'56.913 0.722 / 0.038
8 5 Colin EDWARDS USA Camel Yamaha Team Yamaha 298.1 1'56.967 0.776 / 0.054
9 26 Dani PEDROSA SPA Repsol Honda Team Honda 304.8 1'57.139 0.948 / 0.172
10 17 Randy DE PUNIET FRA Kawasaki Racing Team Kawasaki 298.3 1'57.185 0.994 / 0.046
11 33 Marco MELANDRI ITA Fortuna Honda Honda 298.9 1'57.221 1.030 / 0.036
12 27 Casey STONER AUS Honda LCR Honda 303.8 1'57.679 1.488 / 0.458
13 71 Chris VERMEULEN AUS Rizla Suzuki MotoGP Suzuki 299.1 1'57.894 1.703 / 0.215
14 66 Alex HOFMANN GER Ducati Marlboro Team Ducati 303.4 1'57.906 1.715 / 0.012
15 6 Makoto TAMADA JPN Konica Minolta Honda Honda 302.8 1'58.239 2.048 / 0.333
16 77 James ELLISON GBR Tech 3 Yamaha Yamaha 295.7 1'59.011 2.820 / 0.772
17 7 Carlos CHECA SPA Tech 3 Yamaha Yamaha 295.3 1'59.289 3.098 / 0.278
18 30 Jose Luis CARDOSO SPA Pramac d'Antín MotoGP Ducati 287.2 2'00.971 4.780 / 1.682
19 22 Ivan SILVA SPA Pramac d'Antín MotoGP Ducati 293.5 2'01.433 5.242 / 0.462

 

[Steve Canyon]

I agree with Brian and don't think Ducati are closing the development gap.

They closed some thing, he was lapping as fast as the Yamaha's!! as for the test, you guys know that Ducati would have a box full of bits to try, so I think we can take nothing from the test...

Have a read what Rossi said..

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2011/Duca ... ew+Brno+GP

19 and 26 fell of so you have to take them out of the race....otherwise it's hypothetical ..

The race result stands.....

 

[Brian66]

Chris
What you say about Rossi’s lap times compared to the Yamahas is correct however I still think the Ducati is fundamentally wrong and will not be fixed by a box of parts. They have been trying this approach for 3 years now and every single Ducati rider suffers.
I can tell you from my racing experience that when a racer makes changes to a bike they expect to improve their lap times. No matter how many changes are made the aim is to go faster, not slower. If you do 500 kilometers of testing in one day and your times are slower than the previous day you have a real problem as it indicates that what you are trying is not the answer. That box of parts needs to be scrapped.

I believe it is Ducati’s frames that let them down. They have always been like Harley in that they loath to break with tradition. They finally removed the trellis frame but added a weird front and back carbon fiber section that can't be called a frame.
A small frame section connected to the front of the engine holds the head stock, suspension and the front wheel. Another frame section connects to the back of the engine and hold everything connected to that.
They can't adjust the engine construction strength to allow Flex. Frame flex is a good and also a bad thing but can be fine-tuned. The engine can't be altered so they have to use flex in those two small frame sections.

I am a big fan of Rossi and always have been. The Ducati is not a bike I am particularly fond of even though I raced a Ducati many years ago. Rossi can do much better as a rider if he has a better bike.
As shown in Barry’s Brno testing times, Rossi can lap Brno almost 1.5 seconds faster on a decent bike and that was 5 years ago on tyres that are not as good as todays tyres. You would expect with today tyres and bike electronics that he could go much faster. Not so, that tells me clearly that the Ducati is just not in the race.
As a former racer who has won a few races due to others in front falling off, the feeling is not the same after the race as you know you didn’t win of your own ability. Two guys fell off and gifted him 6th. Sounds better than 8th but as a racer Rossi would know his real place.

 

[Steve Canyon]

Ducati made a faster lap at the test than they did race day...

Best Ducati race lap VR Min 57.844

Best time in test NH Min 57.533

Dani Pedrosa ESP Repsol Honda 1m 56.591s pole

Source. http://www.crash.net/motogp/results/172 ... y_6pm.html

There not looking for the fastest lap, they got to make the bike go round the corners first...

Have a look what the gp11.1's dad said..

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2011/Prez ... +Brno+Test

Carbon Chassis didn't work back in day...I'm sure they where aware of that when the got into it...

 

[Brian66]

There are 7 races to go. I would put my money on Rossi not doing any better in dry conditions in those remaining races year. Lets wait and see the results.
The Ducati is a Lemon

 

[Steve Canyon]

There are 7 races to go. I would put my money on Rossi not doing any better in dry conditions in those remaining races year. Lets wait and see the results.
The Ducati is a Lemon

Looks like you may be right B66....

Jeez there in a mess, some thing has to give soon..

 

[Brian66]

Yes Chris, i think i am right but i wish i wasn’t. It is a shame to see so many great riders who were previous winners, relegated to the rear of the pack and eventually leaving MotoGP.
I think that the Indy MotoGP was unique this time because the track was resurfaced and some bikes destroyed tyres and some didn’t. Rossi seemed lost and watching him, he seemed to have no confidence in the bike. I was actually feeling sorry for him!!!
It would be great if everyone could have a Honda this year and then see who the top rider really is.
I am not a fan of Stoner but watching him it is obvious that he can ride that bike almost out of control and he rightly leading the championship.
The Honda is not the complete reason for dominance. Look at Elias and Aoyama. They are on Hondas but can't get them to work.
I was so deflated by that race performance I didn’t even bother to go through all the times and compare them with last year’s times. But I will do it as I like to study and compare performances.
I have a Motec data logger on my own race bike and it is interesting to see section times and other data that shows the reason why bikes and riders perform differently.