My New WR450F

[johnnysneds]

I change the oil and clean the moose oil filter after every ride/trip.

 

[johnnysneds]

The WR is now 100% legal in Thailand. The book/paperwork/insurance/tax all checks out on a Bangkok number plate, awesome.

Nice number too

 

[bill]

Back to Jonny's WR450F

We were talking about Jonny's new Yamaha WR450F the other night.

This is up there as one of the best production bike's you could have for SE Asia. Put super motard wheels on and its power to weight ratio makes it the fastest bike in the twistie's. Put dirt wheels on and you've got an immensely powerful light dirt bike.

What we were talking about was the maintenance schedules.

Being basically a race engined bike, a lot of people would not consider buying this bike here for extended trip use because of the high maintenance that is perceived is needed (regular valve and piston changes etc..... some say every 50-70 hours), being a race tuned engine.


Jonny has being doing multi-day high speed trips on this bike, with no issues. It seems like the teething problems with the earlier models have been overcome.

Interesting concept, buying this bike here for extended trip

Would be nice to have a dualsport bike on tight trails that weighs 25 ? kg less than my DRZ.

I like John's seat/tank/steering stabilizer mods. All good for longer rides.

As for more frequent piston/valve change intervals etc, probably not a huge imposition in the big scheme of things.
I've spent $1200 on big bore/cams/FCR carb for DRZ to improve the power. Wouldn't need to do that on the WR450...

 

[KTMphil]

I agree with you Bill, with the reliability not really being and issue, this might be the ultimate lightweight machine for SE Asia, being 25kg lighter than the Suzuki DRZ 400 & more powerful would be a delight.

Back to Jonny's WR450F

We were talking about Jonny's new Yamaha WR450F the other night.

This is up there as one of the best production bike's you could have for SE Asia. Put super motard wheels on and its power to weight ratio makes it the fastest bike in the twistie's. Put dirt wheels on and you've got an immensely powerful light dirt bike.

What we were talking about was the maintenance schedules.

Being basically a race engined bike, a lot of people would not consider buying this bike here for extended trip use because of the high maintenance that is perceived is needed (regular valve and piston changes etc..... some say every 50-70 hours), being a race tuned engine.


Jonny has being doing multi-day high speed trips on this bike, with no issues. It seems like the teething problems with the earlier models have been overcome.

Interesting concept, buying this bike here for extended trip

Would be nice to have a dualsport bike on tight trails that weighs 25 ? kg less than my DRZ.

I like John's seat/tank/steering stabilizer mods. All good for longer rides.

As for more frequent piston/valve change intervals etc, probably not a huge imposition in the big scheme of things.
I've spent $1200 on big bore/cams/FCR carb for DRZ to improve the power. Wouldn't need to do that on the WR450...

 

[Pounce]

One of the guys here has just put his in for it's first top end rebuild.
14,000 klms on it.
Not too shabby.

 

[KTMphil]

Pounce - More confirmation that this might be the current ultimate bike for SE Asia, a very manageable maintenance schedule.

 

[Brian66]

As Johnny and I both have the older model WR450F and for those who dream of the WR450F, I have the below info on the new FI model that will be available early next year.
Changes include.
The development of a new aluminium bilateral beam frame that is very similar to the much hailed 2012 YZ250F frame. This has different engine mounts and a new mounting position for the sub frame, which itself is comprised of a new aluminium alloy.
YZ inspired twin chamber suspension is fitted front and rear to soak up the harsh terrain that fast trail and competition enduro riders encounter.
Fuel injection system can easily be adjusted with a hand held, portable Power Tuner device, the same unit that has proven popular with YZ450F owners.
This pocket-sized Power Tuner is easy to carry around and operation is simple when connected to the new WR450F via an easily located coupler.
The Power Tuner offers riders a huge benefit by allowing customised fuel injection settings to fit their personal preferences.
The 450cc engine has been specifically designed to meet the requirements of the new FI system and chassis changes. It retains its liquid cooled, five titanium valve, single cylinder layout. A special cam profile has been developed to suit enduro RPM use while the five speed gearbox has ratios suitable to cover a wide range of riding environments.
The engine is fitted with an exhaust pipe with a built-in resonator which is designed to improve power output in the low to mid speed range. In addition, the radiator is all new with a wider core, increased reliability and more shock resistance than previously.
There are a host of more minor changes.
These include and enduro specific seat with new cover, a slim new plastic resin 7.2 litre fuel tank, a fuel level warning light for peace of mind. And not forgetting a hot new look with black Excel rims, a new headlight cover, side covers and graphics.
The new WRF will go on sale in Australia in early 2012.
(around 360,000 Baht equivalent)
A competition enduro kit will also be offered for those wishing to indulge in closed course riding or racing.
The new Australian model differs significantly to the models sold in European and US markets.
Australia and NZ form the major market for WRF models. Which is incredible when you compare the local population with Europe and US.
But thanks to our love of riding in the bush combined riding access and local laws, down under is where most WRF models will be sold. This is great news because it means Aussies get a say in development.

 

[Brian66]

 

[KTMphil]

Have you ordered at new one yet Brian?

 

[Brian66]

I am a Honda man Phil!!!
I am waiting on one each, new CRF250 and 450X from Red Baron.
The Honda’s are fuel injected and electric start so equal to the WR.

 

[MastaMax]

I am a Honda man Phil!!!
I am waiting on one each, new CRF250 and 450X from Red Baron.
The Honda’s are fuel injected and electric start so equal to the WR.

How much would the crf250x roughly cost? Is it the usual "normal price + 40% Thailand" price?

 

[Brian66]

250X will cost you around 400K +/- with a green book. 450X around 450K +/- with a green book.
Cost is not an issue to me when buying a bike. I am fortunate enough to have the means to buy thing.
I like what i see and make funds available.

 

[MastaMax]

250X will cost you around 400K +/- with a green book. 450X around 450K +/- with a green book.
Cost is not an issue to me when buying a bike. I am fortunate enough to have the means to buy thing.
I like what i see and make funds available.

For me what hurts the most is money wasted on taxes, knowing a new one in any other country would cost 40% less for the exact same bike. And I don't care about the green book, never saw a cop bother about the number plate while riding a dirt bike with a helmet, even stopped at police checkpoints with a friend no plate no passport, after 5minutes of talking it's all good, they tell you how your bike is awesome and wave you goodbye.

I would go for a wr250f personally, I think it will be easier to find yamaha mechanics/parts in Thailand.

 

[Brian66]

I know exactly how you feel. Thailand sucks big time if you compare with where you come from.
I currently own three bikes of the same model and year in three different countries.
Australia 539700 Baht
Singapore 800000 Baht
Thailand 780000 Baht
As you can see Australia is significantly cheaper than Thailand. And surprisingly Singapore is more expensive. Singapore’s issue is mainly to do with the bidding for a COE before you can buy a vehicle in Singapore.
A new 2011 model 250x delivered and registered for the road in Australia is around 330,000 Baht
I don't have an issue with repairs and maintainance as I have a well-equipped shed and I am quite capable of almost any strip and rebuild required plus I get parts hand carried from Australia by workers who rotate every 28 days so I have an easy and constant supply of most reasonably small parts. I have tried to bring in a crankcase or crank shaft in one of my guys suitcases, yet!!!

 

[LivinLOS]

And I don't care about the green book, never saw a cop bother about the number plate while riding a dirt bike with a helmet, even stopped at police checkpoints with a friend no plate no passport, after 5minutes of talking it's all good, they tell you how your bike is awesome and wave you goodbye.

Depends 'where' you ride..

Where I just came from it would be impounded in a day or two, and some cop would have a shiny new toy.

Even plated ones, they literally 'steal' of farangs if they take a shine to it. Only just managed to get a mates steed back after he ran out of petrol and left it by the roadside.

 

[AlexUSA]

And I don't care about the green book, never saw a cop bother about the number plate while riding a dirt bike with a helmet, even stopped at police checkpoints with a friend no plate no passport, after 5minutes of talking it's all good, they tell you how your bike is awesome and wave you goodbye.

Depends 'where' you ride..

Where I just came from it would be impounded in a day or two, and some cop would have a shiny new toy.

Even plated ones, they literally 'steal' of farangs if they take a shine to it. Only just managed to get a mates steed back after he ran out of petrol and left it by the roadside.

This may be true in Bangkok, Pattaya, and the like but I can confirm that in the last year of riding all over the North of the country, and getting stopped at numerous check points, I have never even been asked for my excise tax information or been questioned at all about my bike or it's lack of a plate. This holds true both when riding in full-enduro gear or in street clothes. I pretend I can't speak Thai and the questions never go beyond "where are you going/coming from".

The only reason I see to burn money on a plate if you only ride in the North is to cross into Laos.

 

[LivinLOS]

They really dont care in CM ?? Thats good to hear..

I heard someone who posts on here with a plated bike had it impounded over no road tax and thought I had read every once in a while they have a period where many unplated bikes are all collared, and then you have fines paid to get them back ?? Of course in the country its relaxed but even in the city ??

 

[AlexUSA]

They really dont care in CM ?? Thats good to hear..

I heard someone who posts on here with a plated bike had it impounded over no road tax and thought I had read every once in a while they have a period where many unplated bikes are all collared, and then you have fines paid to get them back ?? Of course in the country its relaxed but even in the city ??

Well it's not legal, for sure. But to put in perspective how worried you need to be, I think like 20% of the bikes on the road up here have expired tax and could theoretically be impounded at any time. The fine is 2,000 for an unplated, non-taxed bike - a bit more than a plated, non-taxed bike.

The only time you might get into trouble is at the rare on-road traffic enforcement check...But I don't really understand why anyone would voluntarily stop for a cop standing on the side of the road waving his hand up a down. Thai police do only one task at a time so if they're not actively enforcing traffic violations, I wouldn't think twice to park my bike in front of a bunch of cops. Police on patrol are not enforcing traffic violations (helmet, tax, etc.). And the unavoidable road blocks outside of the city are only targeting illegal Burmese and hill people.

This information (enforcement areas and fine amount) is all confirmed by a police friend of ours working out of the Changpueak district. We've talked about the situation a few times when he comes to get his bike fixed at our mechanic shop.

Caveats to the above exist - I showed Phil a ticket a coworker of mine got: White guy parked his ftr 223 on a tourist-oriented street (Loi Kroh). A friendly officer asked the guy if he wouldn't mind letting them put his bike in the back of a truck because "they had a report of a bike like his stolen by a foreigner recently and wanted to check it." The friend obliged, under no pressure to do so, and was hit with the 2,000 baht fine. I've heard a few stories like this from foreigners unfamiliar with the relationship the citizenry has with the law enforcement here.

It doesn't hurt to be legal but it's not worth my money unless the enforcement situation changes.

 

[LivinLOS]

Agreed if its the occasional 2k fine worst case then why spend so much on plates..

Down south you dont have a hope.. Not only would you be done multiple times per week at the islands roadblocks but you would lose the bike or pay 10's of 1000's to get it back each time.

 

[Pounce]

You may find this interesting regarding the 2012 Aussie model.
I pinched it from http://www.dirtbikeworld.net/forum/show ... hp?t=87222



Well, the post I put up of first impressions certainly had the phones buzzing at Yamaha Australia. To their great credit, the Comms Manager at YMA, Sean Goldhawk (gee that name sounds like a Honda product ) got right back to me and wanted me to let the DBW brethren know a few things about the points I raised with the new WR450F.

Here's what YMA had to say!....................

Originally Posted by The Professor asks Yamaha Australia the hard questions...

Hi Professor
Please find YMA response to the points you raise about the new 2012 WR450F model.
We will get you a ride on one ASAP so you can assess the changes for yourself.
Best regards
Sean

NP: In relation to the new WR450 I'd like to hear (and so would DBWers) from Yamahas engineers as to their take on the design issues I spotted in a 20 minute look at the bike.

Please see below. We are only too willing to discuss the directions in development of the new model. There are reasons for everything and we want to share them with you and the DBW readers.

NP: This is the point, I suppose, where the bike manufacturer listens to the riders, explains the design issues and improves the bike in production or alternatively, tries to browbeat, stonewall and stifle debate. The tuners and aftermarket industry will eventually solve most issues. The pressing thing that confronts YMA marketing is the weight of the bike, I think most punters expected the YZ250F-based chassis to be a fair bit lighter.

The WR450F is a rare model in that it has been developed and improved for Aussie riders by Aussie riders, people like Geoff Ballard and Peter Payne have been instrumental in its development since its inception. Along with local input, the engineers have always shown an ability to learn from the marketplace (particularly the Aussie market) to develop what riders want.
The perceived weight issue is addressed below, the key point about expectation is the YZ250F still runs a carburettor yet fuel injection generally comes with a weight penalty of around 3kg. In off road guise the new WR450F tips the scales at 120kg with no fuel (actual weight as measured by us) which is in line with the competition. Yes, it is slightly heavier than the 2011 model largely because of the FI system. But it feels lighter to ride due to the new frame and suspension package as well as mass centralisation of the major components.

NP: I like the new bike but it desperately needs the compression lock and weak starter issues fixed and maybe a lightening kit put together by YMA as an option pack. If those issues have been fixed then the marketing department has dropped the ball in not promoting the hell out of it. The Ballards factory sponsored race team hasn?t helped the issue by dumping the company?s Enduro bike for an MX to run in Enduros. The MX is kick start only so the race team don?t get to input on the starter issues. GB did a great job in fixing the front fork and jetting problems for 2012 (both of which just required the existing bike to be properly tuned)

Please note the 2012 model features a new starter motor and starter clutch unit.
There is a lightening initiative, it is called an off-road competition kit and basically removes the ADR gear and lightens key components such as the front brake master cylinder. If you want to go further (like GB does) you can remove the battery and starter motor. Note that the Ballards team is racing the 2012 WR450F next season.
The Sydney Show is the first introduction of the new model, the Off Road Competition kit (as the lightening kit is called) will be marketed in due course closer to the release of the model in Feb 2012.

NP: I'm not privy to YMAs market research but I can tell you the 4 main issues from the 06-11s were;
1) weight
2) front suspension
3) jetting
4) failure to start (compression lock/weak starter motor).

All four things needed addressing.

1) Weight: already addressed
2) Front suspension: They are off road use adapted YZ forks with WR bottom axle brackets (to fit the WRF axle) and WRF fork protectors. Like the YZ units these forks are twin chamber design but with revised damping settings to provide both the required initial suppleness and to suit the higher level of performance of the new frame. The spring rate is heavier than 2011 units and they are fitted in the ultra strong WRF bottom triple clamps
3) Jetting: A thing of the past, wait til you see how easy the portable Power Tuner is to use
4) Failure to start: new starter motor and clutch fitted

DBW forum issues

NP: 1) It still weighs a tonne, Yamaha dude near died when I lifted it off the ground at the Motor Show...

Weight is in the same ballpark as all the other 450cc enduro models and note the claimed weight includes all ADR equipment and full fuel tank. With the off road kit fitted and no fuel the new model tips the scales at 120kg (we know because we weighed one). Bear in mind we added an FI system that generally comes with around 3kg weight penalty, so the new bike is right on the money. Weight is largely an issue when it is poorly placed in a motorcycle. Yamaha uses mass centralisation techniques to great advantage and the 2012 WR450F feels both light and agile to ride.


NP: 2) The direct igniton has been wiped and the bike goes back to a T-model Ford ignition coil. WTF.

Yamaha use a TCI ignition system - as used on all high performance motorcycles eg. R1 - which is ECU enhanced and tunable through the portable Power Tuner. A separate coil is used to allow the removal of the battery - something that can't be achieved with the previous direct ignition coil. All battery-less FI systems use a separate coil eg. YZ450F. The separate coil has more windings and provides a stronger spark at low rpm. The stronger spark works in conjunction with the EFI and creates a better throttle response. The 2012 WR450F battery can be disconnected (plus you can remove all the starter mechanism if weight is an issue for you) and the bike will still run successfully due to the new ignition system.

NP: 3) Said coil is mounted hard up behind the LHS radiator. As soon as the radiator gets a whack it'll stuff the radiator, coil or both.

Time will tell, but the model has been extensively tested and no issues so far.

NP: 4) The 'YZF style' rear suspension is the same old WR stuff from 06, the shock is still 16mm. Same swingarm, delta link and pull rods. YZF my arse.

The shock is completely different to the 06 model shock in every way. We found a 16mm shaft has much better damping abilities and valving options than an 18mm and you will see on the 2012 YZ we have returned to 16mm shaft ? one reason for the YZ inspired description.
The new WRF shock has a shorter stroke, increased gas pressure and altered settings from the 2011 unit to suit the new twin chamber front forks and YZ250F chassis. And a sealed nitrogen reservoir cap that can only be accessed with a needle tool to bleed it for disassembly. 2011 model has a Schrader type valve and cap.
Yes the swing arm and linkages are the same as the 2011 model, and that is because this setup has proven to provide the suppleness required for rocky strewn surfaces whilst maintaining the rigidity that goes with the new frame and suspension. The link type suspension has so many advantages over a fixed swing arm type which some competitors still use EG Progressive load character, use of a smaller spring and shock assembly and increased mass centralisation.

NP: 5) Those dopey pointy radiator shrouds will catch EVERY stick for miles, who designed them ? Husqvarna?

The shrouds are the same as the YZFs. The hundreds of off-road riders that have used them in competition and recreational riding haven't complained yet.

NP: 6) The starter motor and de-comp system are the same. It'll still be hard to start and lock-stall like the old ones.

Incorrect. Starter motor is not a unit construction like the previous models, it is a separate construction and totally different.

NP: 7) Fuel capacity back to 7.2L from 8L

Correct, but ballpark with other 450cc enduro bikes (EG Honda = 7.2 litres, Suzuki = 6.2 litres). Also note that Yamaha's FI system will give better fuelling and hence economy than a carby system. Plus the Power Tuner will let you decide overall mapping to suit your needs and track/surface conditions.

NP: 8) $13990 RRP ride-away......

Note the price ($12,999 RRP inc GST) is the same as the 2011 model yet the new model is supplied with an FOC off road kit that is valued at $650. We believe this is a great price for a bike that is so versatile that it can be trail ridden or raced AND still be performing well in five years time.

NP: 9)Would you sell a re-valved and well-jetted 2011 to buy a 2012?

Yes - you need to ride one to understand the 2012 changes have transformed the ride. We can arrange this

Well there you go, a direct reply from the factory...you cant do better than that. Which leaves one question....Is the de-comp issue fixed? No amount of starter motor changes will wind the big girl over against an inoperable de-comp pin. I suppose we'll find out soon enough, when I get an early ride of the 2012 WR450F.
Thanks Sean.:cheers